Choices

[Snark Knight]

Assuming Jim hasn't changed his mind, he's told us what the big choice was. It's at the end of Grave Peril when Harry goes to save Susan. Our Harry summons a bunch of vengeful ghosts to kill the vampires when he could have absorbed their power and lashed out. The other Harry does the later.

He said the divergence was late in GP.  There's still room for it to be a few possibilities.  One of the big possibilities is !Harry might have taken Bianca's coward's bargain, to abandon Susan and walk free. 

Depending how far back you stretch late in Grave Peril, it could also be a few other things. There was a moment relatively late in the book when Thomas came to Harry to return Amoracchius after he recovered it from the earlier fighting and propose teaming up to rescue Susan and Justine, where Michael wanted to kill him without even seeing what was in the box because vampires are all bad.  If Harry hadn't gone to bat for hearing Thomas out at that point?  Well, that could start a pretty dark timeline.

[Mira]

It had been a single timeline, up until the GP "choice;" that was where they diverged, where the alternative timelines branched apart; Mirror!Murphy didn't grow up any differently from our Murphy.  For Murphy to be "corrupt" in Mirror Mirror, she'd have to have turned that way since the time of GP.  I don't think that's possible for her (unless some mindbender broke her mind).

Really?  No, a choice is like a pebble thrown into a still pond, it creates ripples.. Everything is altered.

[Bridger]

Mirror!Harry is not a decent person any longer, no; he has gone full-on villain.  Not sure if he's just gone overboard on the "fighting the good fight" theme, embracing "acceptable losses" in collateral damage

This has been my pet hypothesis.  Nicodemus argues in these terms.  His rationalization for all the murder and mayhem he causes is that it is in pursuit of a much greater good.  Harry could, one death at a time, rationalize his way down that road.  Maybe not as far as Nic, but to the point where he's a lot less careful about how he uses his magic to achieve his goals, and shuts down the part of himself that would normally feel immense guilt over collateral damage.

[Mira]

This has been my pet hypothesis.  Nicodemus argues in these terms.  His rationalization for all the murder and mayhem he causes is that it is in pursuit of a much greater good.  Harry could, one death at a time, rationalize his way down that road.  Maybe not as far as Nic, but to the point where he's a lot less careful about how he uses his magic to achieve his goals, and shuts down the part of himself that would normally feel immense guilt over collateral damage.

Yeah, but I doubt that that is the choice since then you'd think it would be more along the lines of deciding to accept the coin or not to ultimately reject the temptation of Lasciel's Shadow, both of which happen in a later book.  No, if it's the decision he made at the end of Grave Peril, then there were several that could have sent things going in another direction... It could also be that as a person Harry isn't any different than the Harry we know and love, but because he made the wrong choice he has to walk a whole different path that ruins what our Harry has been trying to do..  Then it's possible that what Uriel told him in Changes about straying from the path and why, as in out of love does matter.. This could be yet another object lesson that Uriel is trying to teach Harry.. Could be that Mirrormirror turns out to be more "It's A Wonderful Life," than a classic Star Trek remake.

[g33k]

Really?  No, a choice is like a pebble thrown into a still pond, it creates ripples.. Everything is altered.

A change in a moment only ripples forward in time, though.
Harry's choice in GP can't have touched Murphy's childhood, upbringing, young adulthood, etc.

She was a truly-good person going into GP; only one Murphy.
There is potential for change by the end of it, Mirror!Murphy's life begins to diverge (as do others).

[Mira]

A change in a moment only ripples forward in time, though.
Harry's choice in GP can't have touched Murphy's childhood, upbringing, young adulthood, etc.

She was a truly-good person going into GP; only one Murphy.
There is potential for change by the end of it, Mirror!Murphy's life begins to diverge (as do others).

 A stone tossed in a lake sends out ripples in all directions..  And as far as that goes, Murphy and Harry's lives touched from The
Restoration of Faith..  However if Harry's choice changes the world, it changes everything around him as well, not just him.  That's why time travel is so dangerous. 

[g33k]

A stone tossed in a lake sends out ripples in all directions..

Your simile is misleading; time has flow, an inherent direction.  It is not a placid lake amenable to "ripples in all directions."

An event has consequences moving forward in time.  Causality does not go backwards (until you time-travel backwards -- but then only forward again, from whatever point you insert yourself).
 

[Mira]

Your simile is misleading; time has flow, an inherent direction.  It is not a placid lake amenable to "ripples in all directions."

An event has consequences moving forward in time.  Causality does not go backwards (until you time-travel backwards -- but then only forward again, from whatever point you insert yourself).

You misunderstand.. Time has flow, but if Harry is different from the Harry we know because of a poor choice, everyone he touches also is changed because of the way he affects them and what has happened because of his choice.  The Murphy you know has been shaped by the Harry we know, she made her own choices because of him... If it is a different Harry, we won't see the same Murphy.. Now Michael, who is shaped by his devotion to God and being a Holy Knight would be perhaps constant, because his choices are shaped more by faith than Harry.

[g33k]

You misunderstand.. Time has flow, but if Harry is different from the Harry we know because of a poor choice, everyone he touches also is changed because of the way he affects them and what has happened because of his choice.  The Murphy you know has been shaped by the Harry we know, she made her own choices because of him... If it is a different Harry, we won't see the same Murphy.. Now Michael, who is shaped by his devotion to God and being a Holy Knight would be perhaps constant, because his choices are shaped more by faith than Harry.

Up until the moment of "the choice" in GP (and we don't know what that was) was identical.
Same people, same events, same impacts of the events upon the people.

SAME.

That includes Murphy being the same Murphy -- a strong person, a good cop, not corrupt.

Ripples forward in time, thereafter... yep, that's the entire premise!
Impacts on Murphy, undoubtedly.

But enough to turn Mirror!Murphy into a corrupt cop?  I don't think so.
 

[Lord Kinbote]

Ripples forward in time, thereafter... yep, that's the entire premise!
Impacts on Murphy, undoubtedly.

But enough to turn Mirror!Murphy into a corrupt cop?  I don't think so.

But maybe enough that Murphy ends up dead earlier than in the canon timeline.  In canon, Murphy was better equipped to deal with the supernatural threats in Chicago because Harry brought her fully in, shared with her knowledge about the supernatural world and what was happening, protected her as best as he could and as she would allow, etc. while she did her job.  Without Harry's help or the same level of protection, is she able to do her job and stay alive as long as she did in canon?

[Mira]

But maybe enough that Murphy ends up dead earlier than in the canon timeline.  In canon, Murphy was better equipped to deal with the supernatural threats in Chicago because Harry brought her fully in, shared with her knowledge about the supernatural world and what was happening, protected her as best as he could and as she would allow, etc. while she did her job.  Without Harry's help or the same level of protection, is she able to do her job and stay alive as long as she did in canon?

Yup, consider how she was in both Storm Front and Fool Moon, you could argue she was a good cop, but she was also quick to jump to conclusions and as a result got people killed as happened in Fool Moon!  Depending on her attitude, she may have developed more of a closed mind, stayed a cop, but to the determent of the world around her..

[g33k]

But maybe enough that Murphy ends up dead earlier than in the canon timeline.  In canon, Murphy was better equipped to deal with the supernatural threats in Chicago because Harry brought her fully in, shared with her knowledge about the supernatural world and what was happening, protected her as best as he could and as she would allow, etc. while she did her job.  Without Harry's help or the same level of protection, is she able to do her job and stay alive as long as she did in canon?

I am relatively-confident Mirror!Murphy will be alive; simply because of the vast opportunities it gives Jim to further torture Harry.

Early-books Harry was still giving Murphy lots of stay-alive info (albeit limited/incomplete), and I expect that didn't stop completely when he made the Choice.  Remember that Murphy got so deeply into the supernatural because of Harry.  Without Harry there, opening the doors he opened, Murphy's likely to have had shallower, less-dangerous encounters. 

Alternatively, maybe Mirror!Murphy teamed up with Michael, who -- while (mostly) not as clued-in as Harry -- had much more info than Murphy!

[Avernite]

I am relatively-confident Mirror!Murphy will be alive; simply because of the vast opportunities it gives Jim to further torture Harry.

Early-books Harry was still giving Murphy lots of stay-alive info (albeit limited/incomplete), and I expect that didn't stop completely when he made the Choice.  Remember that Murphy got so deeply into the supernatural because of Harry.  Without Harry there, opening the doors he opened, Murphy's likely to have had shallower, less-dangerous encounters. 

Alternatively, maybe Mirror!Murphy teamed up with Michael, who -- while (mostly) not as clued-in as Harry -- had much more info than Murphy!

If torturing Harry is the point, obviously Murphy will be happy and safe, and be absolutely murderously angry when she sees Harry.

So yes, teaming up with the Knights of the Cross to actually deal with supernatural threats Mirror!Harry doesn't deal with properly, cleaning up his mess... that would sound just the kind of torturous that Harry needs to see. His Choices have Consequences, and maybe even the RIGHT choice in GP has a BAD influence on someone he loved.

[Mira]

Early-books Harry was still giving Murphy lots of stay-alive info (albeit limited/incomplete), and I expect that didn't stop completely when he made the Choice.  Remember that Murphy got so deeply into the supernatural because of Harry.  Without Harry there, opening the doors he opened, Murphy's likely to have had shallower, less-dangerous encounters.

Alternatively, maybe Mirror!Murphy teamed up with Michael, who -- while (mostly) not as clued-in as Harry -- had much more info than Murphy!

Or closed minded, and why would she team up with Michael?  I doubt without Harry she would have even known Micheal.  You forget even in this timeline she got a Holy Sword broken because she felt her judgement was better than God's Judgement when it came to Nic. 

For the record?  If you really want to torture Harry, have Murphy act like he never existed, and treat him that way as well with a totally closed mind towards the supernatural...  Oh and maybe still married to one of her husbands...

[g33k]

... and why would she team up with Michael?  I doubt without Harry she would have even known Micheal ...

You forget:  Michael has some extra guidance! 
Without Harry's assistance, SI & Murphy will have needed some extra help... help that Michael is well-situated to provide!  Obviously, that's no guarantee Jim will have written it that way; but it'd be  a nice exemplar of God's Providence, with Michael's multiversal presence situated to support Murphy (or in a different Alt!Universe, Morty?) when that alt!Harry does not.

... For the record?  If you really want to torture Harry, have Murphy act like he never existed, and treat him that way as well with a totally closed mind towards the supernatural...

Murphy 1st met Harry in the Restoration of Faith short, earlier even than Storm Front.
He was a regular consultant for SI, for the first few novels (the earliest such (that we see onscreen) he had already been consulting with them for a while).
All of that is the same, between the "prime" and "Mirror" universes.

The entirety of the setting & character-development isn't subject to revision -- only from GP's "choice" onwards.

I don't see any way for Mirror!Murphy to have buried her head in the sand and deny the supernatural; and Harry will *very* much be on Mirror!Murphy's radar -- as a Bad Guy^(tm)!