Author Topic: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?  (Read 2885 times)

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2025, 04:16:04 AM »
I really doubt Harry is literally a younger version of THE Merlin.  I don't want him to be that, either.  It's too simplistic, it's almost the classic time travel time loop story.

But I do think that there is some strong connection of some sort between Merlin and Harry, and I suspect that Harry might, way down the road, master magic at Merlinian levels.  But that would probably be off-stage and post-story.  I suspect Harry will eventually meet Merlin, too, either because he's still out there somewhere or through time travel.

(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away.  But I don't expect that.)

Offline Mira

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2025, 11:59:44 AM »
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(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away.  But I don't expect that.)
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I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."

Offline forumghost

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2025, 12:03:50 PM »
I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."

Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.

Offline g33k

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2025, 02:37:37 PM »
Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.
???
I ... guess this is a further riff on "Sword of Truth" (the sundial statue "Life"?)

I'm pretty sure that Jim pretty-rigorously avoids politics (as Harry, he denigrates all politicians equally, just as politicians, without ever calling out specific policies).

And your own remarks in themselves seem to be straying well-into the explicitly-disallowed territory... even if you're "just making a joke" or "forgot the /s" or whatever. 
 

Offline Mira

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2025, 06:10:20 PM »
???
I ... guess this is a further riff on "Sword of Truth" (the sundial statue "Life"?)

I'm pretty sure that Jim pretty-rigorously avoids politics (as Harry, he denigrates all politicians equally, just as politicians, without ever calling out specific policies).

And your own remarks in themselves seem to be straying well-into the explicitly-disallowed territory... even if you're "just making a joke" or "forgot the /s" or whatever.


I don't think so, nothing political in referring to other fantasy series, and the Dresden Files is all about war, peace, good, and evil... You really can't discuss the Dresdenverse without getting into those things, the world has been thus since the beginning of time..  In my opinion no one's toes politically or religiously have been stepped on..

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2025, 10:32:45 PM »
(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away.  But I don't expect that.)
I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."

I agree with your sentiments @Mira. I enjoyed the first half to 2/3 of "The Sword of Truth" series. I was not a fan of the whole magic going away aspect. The Dresden series has been about the supernatural coexisting next to the vanilla mortals. I think that magic/supernatural fading away would be a huge departure from the series up to this point.

Offline clickeral

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2025, 01:07:46 AM »
What if the Merlin is a prisoner in Daemonreach?

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2025, 09:20:23 PM »
Count me in the group of people that do not think Harry and Merlin are or should be the same person. I agree that it seems to simplistic of an explanation. I believe that Merlin is a distinct person. We know that he created the White Council. I believe that if Harry is the younger Merlin and thus when he is older goes back in time and sets up the White Council he would have set it up differently due to his younger experience with it. In other words, I have a hard time believing that Harry, with his experience with the council's actions towards him and his beliefs about how the council should act would set the council up in a way that would allow that to happen.

My own pet theory is that Merlin, with all his time travel shenanigans, sets up the Well to harbor the worst of the worst because he knows it will be needed. Because he knows it will be needed he leaves a message for the future Warden of the Well with instructions and advice. I'm thinking something along the lines of Harry's mother's amulet. This would allow Harry to interact with Merlin and give us a window into who he was without having to do a whole separate book about it.

Offline g33k

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2025, 12:21:10 AM »
... My own pet theory is that Merlin, with all his time travel shenanigans, sets up the Well to harbor the worst of the worst because he knows it will be needed. Because he knows it will be needed he leaves a message for the future Warden of the Well with instructions and advice. I'm thinking something along the lines of Harry's mother's amulet. This would allow Harry to interact with Merlin and give us a window into who he was without having to do a whole separate book about it.
I think there are Well-secrets behind the firewall that is "Alfred."
We already know it knows stuff Harry doesn't, and doles out information on a very-limited basis.

I suspect there are one or more "levels" of information-disclosure that will be unlocked like a videogame achievement.  Possibly even a videogame-easter-egg that Merlin (who saw it in his time-travels) leaves as a joke.

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2025, 11:25:35 PM »
I think there are Well-secrets behind the firewall that is "Alfred."
We already know it knows stuff Harry doesn't, and doles out information on a very-limited basis.

I suspect there are one or more "levels" of information-disclosure that will be unlocked like a videogame achievement.  Possibly even a videogame-easter-egg that Merlin (who saw it in his time-travels) leaves as a joke.

I hadn't considered Alfred being the source of a message. The whole video through Bob in Cold Days proves that he can convey complex messages and it is certainly possible that there are messages left to be unlocked. One of the running themes in the Dresden Files seems to be that your knowledge is limited until you are worthy of it (example: Harry getting his mothers amulet and Harry discovering the name Nemesis). Typically, being worthy is demonstrated by asking the right questions of the right people. Who knows what secrets Alfred has that are just waiting for the right question.

Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard.

Offline Mira

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2025, 02:31:08 PM »
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Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard.
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That is an excellent question, and is it possible to even create a genus loci? 

Side note, though I have enjoyed "The Sword of Truth" series as well, I think it got a bit long winded..

Offline Talby16

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2025, 07:04:06 PM »
That is an excellent question, and is it possible to even create a genus loci? 

I do not know for sure. I think that if there is a place of significance that has power an awareness can develop. Here is a WOJ that seems to suggest the Outer Gates could gain a conciousness:
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The Gate seems like something that, if it didn’t start with a consciousness, would develop it over time.  Is that the case?
It probably is, but the consciousness of an inanimate object like that is mostly like that of a mountain.  “I AM HERE.”  And it’s just increasingly aware of its here-ness.  The Gate actually exists very differently than what Harry saw, but that’s how Harry has to interpret it because it’s far out in the Nevernever.  Your mind has to put things into terms it can understand or you go squirrely.  Harry’s got a very good mind for reducing things to simple ideas.  Which most of the Senior Council would say with a roll of their eyes.
2015 San Francisco signing (Coopersfield Books)

Side note, though I have enjoyed "The Sword of Truth" series as well, I think it got a bit long winded..

I feel like it started to lose its way near the end. Which is weird. I felt like there was an overall plan for the books. I felt like many authors Terry Goodkind did a good job of peeling back the layers to expose more and more of the world. I just think it got a little to complex and tried juggling too much.

Offline Mira

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2025, 08:59:25 PM »
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I feel like it started to lose its way near the end. Which is weird. I felt like there was an overall plan for the books. I felt like many authors Terry Goodkind did a good job of peeling back the layers to expose more and more of the world. I just think it got a little to complex and tried juggling too much.

A good author should know when to stop.. It can go on too long leave too many loose ends.. A well written series shouldn't take 20 800 page books to pull it off..

Offline g33k

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2025, 09:53:01 PM »
...
Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard. 

I believe Merlin built the Guardian magic atop the (pre-existing) Genus Loci spirit.
I know of no WoJ specifying/clarifying this issue... not really even any hints, alas!
 

Offline SerScot

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Re: Does anyone think Harry isn’t the original Merlin?
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2025, 01:44:04 AM »
Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.

What about the chickens who personify “evil”?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC