The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Speculation: Was Kemmler like Harry?
Mira:
--- Quote ---The reason we keep getting different dates for Kemmler’s final and permanent death is because there are different Kemmler’s in different universes doing the same thing, but not all at the same time. So we get Kemmler getting killed after WW2, in the 1950’s and 1961. This is another example of a continuity error that isn’t an error at all. It is no different than the example of there being a Brighter Future Society and Better Future Society and no one notices the distinction.
Report
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Or in the spirit of a quote from Mark Twain, "reports of Kemmler's death were greatly exaggerated.." In other words someone as clever as Kemmler would have ways of faking his death. Reports of Kemmler being dead, doesn't mean he was dead. For all we know the true spirit of Kemmler is Evil Bob. The only reason Kemmler remains dead now, is Harry forbade Bob from accessing that part of himself.. Then finally after almost killing Harry during his brief resurrection, Bob completely cut himself off from what would become Evil Bob.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on February 03, 2025, 04:39:38 PM ---Note that they tried before, according to Bob.
But also note that Kemmler was naturally strong with life&death magics (burly, like Harry is with Force and Fire (and Earth).
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No doubt they killed him over and over. For that matter, I'm pretty sure they killed him over and over in a short time in 1961, until he went down and stayed down.
But my point was that Kemmler probably didn't have that level of power until he'd been in the game for a while. Unless he suddenly displayed his badness all at once with no warning, it's a little odd that an organization as chop-happy as the Council we've seen in the books hadn't already acted, while it would be easy.
Unless that Council as we've known it as the way we've known it because of Kemmler. Then that makes sense, and it would also help explain why Margaret was able to run as wild as she did for as long as she did.
If we take Stacy's comments at face value, even before she finally crossed over the line, Margaret deliberately danced up to the edge of the Laws, over and over, and got away with it. The Council we've known since ~2000 wouldn't likely tolerate that for long. The Wardens would be watching carefully for an excuse and at some point she'd dance an inch too close and CHOP!
But maybe they were more tolerant back in the day.
Mira:
--- Quote ---If we take Stacy's comments at face value, even before she finally crossed over the line, Margaret deliberately danced up to the edge of the Laws, over and over, and got away with it. The Council we've known since ~2000 wouldn't likely tolerate that for long. The Wardens would be watching carefully for an excuse and at some point she'd dance an inch too close and CHOP!
But maybe they were more tolerant back in the day.
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Or not, but Margaret was also closely allied with the White Court when she was Raith's lover.. Someone the White Council doesn't really want to cross openly.. She was also closely allied with the Winter Court, though with no official title that we know of, someone else that the White Council didn't want to cross. Then when she fell in love and then married Malcolm I think she more or less just slipped off the radar. Except for when she went about actively creating a star child, I don't think Margaret was very active at all in the magical world after she married Malcolm. In the end it was a vengeful Lord Raith that killed her, not the Wardens under orders from the White Council.
Tinfoil hat:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on January 29, 2025, 05:46:18 AM ---That's a good question. But then again, it's an equally good question whether my hypothesis is true or not, considering that whether or not the Council was more 'relaxed' before Kemmler, they visibly were chop-happy by the 1990s and after.
We don't fully know the answer to how Harry survived.
To be fair, they almost did kill him. He came very close, several times, and it was partly the fact that Ebenezar is a high-ranking Council member himself, and a few of the other high-rankers were at least prepared to listen, that saved him. Harry being a starborn may have been part of the equation, too. The Council clearly knows more about starborns than Harry has been told, some Councillors may have considered his starborn status to make him valuable enough to take a risk with.
But we just don't have enough information to say for sure.
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I have always suspected that kemmler traumatized the WC has a whole. Cause if he was a prob from 1861 - 1961, the members of the council had to have felt a lot of guilt about him especially while watching him kick start WW1 and WW2. Everytime they had some atrocities being committed that had to weigh on the council as a whole.
Like sure its not them doing all the evil that kemmler was doing but it was their job to stop him before he got this bad.
I think that guilt would be worse if at some point they let him of with a warning when he started
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on January 26, 2025, 10:58:58 PM ---Why did it get so far? Why was in only in freaking 1961 that the Council finally punched Kemmler's ticket, after all that? World War I ran from 1914 to 1918/19 (depending on when you count it ending) and its aftereffects went on for decades. Necromancy is a straight Law violation in itself.
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We know from the Luccio in the Wild West short story that the Wardens had chopping Kemmler as a high priority objective as of ca. 1870-ish. They actually did kill him repeatedly, the problem was he just kept coming back, presumably through the same or similar means as Team Harry interrupted Corpsetaker from managing. What took them time wasn't hardening their attitude, it was figuring out a method to keep him down for good.
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