The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 01:22:41 PM --- You can be recruited to go to a school, for a job, to join the military, but you don't have to take any of those jobs ...
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There is an incorrect casual-usage as you say; "recruit" as "try to persuade to join."
But the correct definition is actually getting someone to join; you have not "recruited" them if they don't.
Note the passage you quoted above:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 18, 2024, 11:46:44 AM ---Small Favor
--- Quote ---"Not having it could have gotten me killed, too," I said. "And then you'd have wasted all that time you've put in trying to recruit me to be the next Winter Knight."
"Nonsense," Mab said. "If you died, I would simply recruit your brother. He would be well motivated to seek revenge upon your killers."
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Harry: "... trying to recruit me..."
Mab: "I would simply recruit your brother."
It's clear Jim is writing with the correct usage, here (try vs would -- there is no try, Padawan!).
Mab would recruit Thomas (I mean, she'd try... successfully! Let's face it: Mab's 100% correct that Thomas would want revenge, and Thomas doesn't have Harry's pig-headedness, and Thomas has long been the Whamp poster-boy of go-along-to-get-along... Thomas wouldn't resist all that hard!)
But you're entirely correct, I think, in saying that none of this was what Mab wanted. Whampire-Thomas wouldn't make nearly the caliber of Winter Knight that Starborn/Wizard Harry can be. If things didn't work out, Thomas would have been Mab's "fallback plan," but (as she surmised) the collection of carrots + sticks that Mab had finally arrayed to get Harry as Knight was enough to do the job.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
Mab would recruit Thomas (I mean, she'd try... successfully! Let's face it: Mab's 100% correct that Thomas would want revenge, and Thomas doesn't have Harry's pig-headedness, and Thomas has long been the Whamp poster-boy of go-along-to-get-along... Thomas wouldn't resist all that hard!)
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Without know what effect the mantle would have on the Hunger Demon? Really? Would Mab do that? Consider how hard it was for Harry to resist the urge to rape after he acquired the mantle.. Now think about a demon who feeds off of sexual pleasure on steroids because of the mantle.. No, Mab was bluffing which isn't the same as lying..
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In negotiations, bluffs are deceptions that are acceptable to both parties, while lies are deceptions that are unacceptable to both parties. Bluffing is considered a moral-free negotiating tactic, while lying can be reduced by means of a code of conduct
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This is why you don't negotiate with the Fae! While it is true that they cannot lie, they can and will bluff! There are good reasons why Mab wouldn't want Thomas as he Knight and very solid reasons why she wants Harry. Will she lie to get her way? No, the Fae don't lie, but will she bluff? Hell yeah.
--- Quote ---But you're entirely correct, I think, in saying that none of this was what Mab wanted. Whampire-Thomas wouldn't make nearly the caliber of Winter Knight that Starborn/Wizard Harry can be. If things didn't work out, Thomas would have been Mab's "fallback plan," but (as she surmised) the collection of carrots + sticks that Mab had finally arrayed to get Harry as Knight was enough to do the job.
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I doubt that Thomas was ever Mab's fall back plan, because of the Hunger Demon, that's the wild card in this. It would simply be too great a risk.
Dina:
I came very late to this party, but I have a few comments I want to make.
As it was said, most white court are children of a human. I am not sure if it is possible for two white vampires to have a child, and I do not know if that child would be more or less powerful than a regular white court vampire. Also, I think Inari did kill her demon.
Justine: I do not think she was nemfected since the beginning. It would be very sad if Thomas has conceived a child with a shell body encasing Nemesis. I think Justine is still there, in her body.
Thomas being mortal enough because he was in love is a very weird statement and I am still not sure what that means. But I suspect the problem is that Harry thought the Knight had to be mortal, but in true it has to be "mortal enough". I think being in love is not the reason he is "mortal enough" but the proof that he is one. Which would imply that fae and probably red and black vampires and other things are not able to love.
Mab inability to lie is always complicated to me because I think that when she pretended to be someone else (in SK? I do not remember, when she pretended to be neighbour or something) she said a few things that were not literally true. I cannot check it now. But I do think when she said she would have offered the position to Thomas, she meant that. Thomas is a sub par choice, but he is still Margaret son and I have the feeling that is what Mab values.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 10:00:38 PM ---Without know what effect the mantle would have on the Hunger Demon? Really? Would Mab do that? Consider how hard it was for Harry to resist the urge to rape after he acquired the mantle.. Now think about a demon who feeds off of sexual pleasure on steroids because of the mantle.. No, Mab was bluffing which isn't the same as lying..
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I think you underestimate Mab; she knows exactly what a Whampire Winterknight will be like (I suspect she has had them before).
It would be the simplest thing in the world to prevent rape: surfeit the Knight with entirely-willing wintersidhe. Give him an entourage of cold-day hotties. Slate was a sociopath, but the Hunger Demon is just hungry: feed it and it's pretty quiescent (it's the human side of things that turn it so very awful... but of course Whampire upbringing tends a bit toward the awful, so that's over-represented).
But Thomas? Nah, he'd be satisfied to have a faerie courtier every other day or so.
(n.b. we saw that Thomas could have ongoing relations with svartalves, and Connie could be surfeited just with Irwin)
Mira:
--- Quote ---Mab inability to lie is always complicated to me because I think that when she pretended to be someone else (in SK? I do not remember, when she pretended to be neighbour or something) she said a few things that were not literally true. I cannot check it now. But I do think when she said she would have offered the position to Thomas, she meant that. Thomas is a sub par choice, but he is still Margaret son and I have the feeling that is what Mab values.
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Spot on Dina! Two statements apply to the Fae. 1] They cannot lie, everyone believes that and the Fae themselves harp on that point. 2] Never bargain with the Fae, you always almost end up with the short end of the stick so to speak.
Statement one is totally incompatible with statement two. Why? Because if you are bargaining with someone who cannot lie, you trust that everything they are telling you is true. However if you put your trust in the Fae cannot lie when you bargain with them.. You are in trouble, because somewhere along the line whatever it was you were believing a Fae was telling you truthfully, gets twisted.
The Fae may not lie, but they do bluff, not the same. If you don't understand that, you are lost in any negotiation with them. So while the Fae cannot lie, you should never trust them or what they say completely..
--- Quote ---It would be the simplest thing in the world to prevent rape: surfeit the Knight with entirely-willing wintersidhe. Give him an entourage of cold-day hotties. Slate was a sociopath, but the Hunger Demon is just hungry: feed it and it's pretty quiescent (it's the human side of things that turn it so very awful... but of course Whampire upbringing tends a bit toward the awful, so that's over-represented).
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I think you underestimate the Hunger Demon.
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