The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
LordDresden2:
Now that I think about it, we have proof that White Court vampires have at least some free will. For one thing, Mab considers them 'mortal' enough to be candidates for Winter Knight. That's pretty telling, because the whole point of the knight mantle is for the Fae Court to have a free-willed operator at their employ.
But even more so, we've seen with Thomas that if a White Court vampire uses magic, it generates techbane. The techbane effect is specifically rooted in mortal free will.
Mira:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on November 11, 2024, 04:46:32 AM ---Now that I think about it, we have proof that White Court vampires have at least some free will. For one thing, Mab considers them 'mortal' enough to be candidates for Winter Knight. That's pretty telling, because the whole point of the knight mantle is for the Fae Court to have a free-willed operator at their employ.
But even more so, we've seen with Thomas that if a White Court vampire uses magic, it generates techbane. The techbane effect is specifically rooted in mortal free will.
--- End quote ---
Mab thought Thomas might be mortal enough to be her Winter Knight because he was in love with Justine. Thomas was also Margaret's son, so half mortal. However if push came to shove, would Mab have tried to make Thomas her Knight? Or was she speculating that Thomas could be mortal enough for the job to trap Harry into it? Remember she was telling Harry this because she knew that Harry would want to prevent it from happening, because she really wanted Harry for the job. Yes, the Fae cannot lie, but it says nothing the Fae not being able to speculate. In other words, Thomas might be mortal enough, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the White Court is.
Mavra of the Black Court is able to wield magic, she isn't a mortal.. She is one of the undead, so does that make her mortal enough to have free will?
vincentric:
You have a free will problem.
Because if all of the monsters and half breeds don't have free will, then who or what is directing them? How do they come up with all these elaborate long-term plans? Sometimes people just make what we consider the evil choice just because that's their preference. Or are you saying that even mundane serial killers and sex offenders have lost their free will?
The monsters do have choices, but most are ruled by their base impulses. They are willful addicts, that embrace their vices for the short bursts of pleasure they get. Their leaders keep better control and only give in to the addiction in extremis. Indeed, it's considered a sign of weakness or senility among them if they begin to lose control.
Mira:
--- Quote ---You have a free will problem.
Because if all of the monsters and half breeds don't have free will, then who or what is directing them? How do they come up with all these elaborate long-term plans? Sometimes people just make what we consider the evil choice just because that's their preference. Or are you saying that even mundane serial killers and sex offenders have lost their free will?
--- End quote ---
No, I am not, there is a difference between an ordinary garden variety vanilla murderer and a White Court Vampire murderer. The first mostly acts upon his or her own impulses and emotions with the free will to chose. Where as a White Court Vampire murderer is play host to a demon. The demon calls the shots, the Hunger demon will always satisfy it's needs first. It can be satisfied with nibbling if it's hunger is satisfied by that, but if the demon needs more, it will take more. The demon needs to keep the host body strong, sexually attractive, and healthy so it can survive.. Ergo, it will compel the Host to do what is required whether the Host wants to do it or not.. Thus the Host has little or no free will, it has the illusion of it.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 11, 2024, 11:27:01 AM --- Mab thought Thomas might be mortal enough to be her Winter Knight because he was in love with Justine. Thomas was also Margaret's son, so half mortal.
--- End quote ---
Most White Court vampires are the offspring of a WCV and a mortal. Half mortal is the norm for them.
--- Quote ---
However if push came to shove, would Mab have tried to make Thomas her Knight?
--- End quote ---
She said she would. Harry asked her what she would do if he had been killed, since he knew she wanted him as her knight. She said point blank in response that she would offer it to Thomas. Not that she would consider it or maybe, but that she would offer it to Thomas. Straight declarative statement, and Mab always speaks the truth.
--- Quote ---
Mavra of the Black Court is able to wield magic, she isn't a mortal.. She is one of the undead, so does that make her mortal enough to have free will?
--- End quote ---
She can use magic. You don't have to have free will to use magic, but having free will is what causes magical techbane. That's why Fae can use magic and also use smartphones and other electronics, no techbane. But the combination of magic and free will screws up electronics and other technology.
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