The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Carlos and Chandler's mentors
EBRIEN:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 05, 2024, 08:49:24 PM ---
Odd, I feel the opposite, I predict that in Mirror Mirror Harry will rescue and return with him and the White Council won't trust him because of it. Thus Chandler will also be kicked not only out of the Wardens but the White Council as well. This will allow him to join Harry and fill the role left vacant by the retirement of Michael, imprisonment of Thomas, and rejection of friendship by Carlos.
--- End quote ---
I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.
Mira:
--- Quote from: EBRIEN on April 08, 2024, 11:35:15 PM ---I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.
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Great minds think alike! ;)
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: EBRIEN on April 08, 2024, 11:35:15 PM ---I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.
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Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".
I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and given this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.
Harry may well form another White Council after the inevitable collapse of the current one. But if the White Council collapses around the various apocalypses, is there even much point?
Not only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.
Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".
I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and give this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.
--- End quote ---
Not maybe as we have known him, but Harry will survive. But then again, Jim is now successful enough that if he loses some readers because he kills Harry off it won't hurt him that much. Also consider, Jim has already "killed" Harry off once and brought him back, and he isn't the same Harry he was before, nor is his world.
--- Quote ---t only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.
--- End quote ---
Yes, young Harry rejected authority in a lot of ways, corrupt authority especially. I disagree, Harry is no libertarian, not in the classic sense. Up until they rejected him outright, Harry had a lot of respect for the White Council from just the way he talked about it. No, he didn't follow all the rules all of the time, but more out of nessesity rather than disregard for them or belief that they didn't have merit. Go back to his debate with the Merlin in his defense of Molly in Proven Guilty, that wasn't argued by a libertarian, it was argued by a future Merlin wanting the White Council to follow it's own rules. Carlos maybe still young but he still represents the old guard, Harry is the new.
--- Quote ---Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.
--- End quote ---
Harry didn't leave the White Council, the White Council left him. I also disagree that Harry likes being an outsider, he cannot afford to be with the BAT coming. He has to learn to play well with others and become a leader. This is what makes the series interesting, Harry has to evolve and is evolving, he has had to learn to play nice with some and reject others, watching him grow up is what makes the series compelling.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 13, 2024, 09:23:30 PM ---I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and give this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.
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Dresden may indeed die at the end of the BAT; it seems entirely possible, maybe even probable. But I'll note that the series is also called "The Casefiles of Harry Dresden," so if he moves fully into the "Wizard of Chicago" gig, that'd be the end of the whole PI-oriented casefiles" schtick.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 13, 2024, 09:23:30 PM --- ... Harry may well form another White Council after the inevitable collapse of the current one. But if the White Council collapses around the various apocalypses, is there even much point?
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My notion (I think it's one others share) is that Harry leverages the Paranet to build a broader coalition, one not exclusive to "White Council Caliber" talents. The foundation IMHO would be educational: "how not to fall afoul of Black Magic ways." This, above all -- the lack of WC guidance for the proto-wizards who fall (all too easily) into the lures of power -- is the thing where Harry feels most-keenly that the WC is just not doing a good-enough job. And the Paranet is well-suited (in terms of "feet on the ground" & connections into communities) to spot these cases and intervene before things get to the "call for the Grey Cloaks" stage.
It doesn't even have to wait for the WC to collapse -- it could start right away, using the Paranet to begin educating Paranet-level talents. And if they occasionally don't report every single "Wizard Caliber" talent up the tree to the White Council... Well. That just adds more complication to Harry's life (which after all is Jim's bread&butter (and mortgage)).
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 13, 2024, 09:23:30 PM --- ... Not only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing ...
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As others have said, it's not really anti-authority. It's anti-bullying, and anti abuse-of-power.
But earned expertise and good judgement -- being an authority, not just having a position of authority -- is something Harry respects, and often yields to.
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