The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Has Carlos sided with the merlin against Harry
Dina:
I agree both Thomas and Lara can have anyone they want if they are trying, but I do not think they can have a relationship with them when they act like normal persons, if there is not previous sexual interest. I mean, sure, Harry could have been in Thomas thrall, but then, I think he would not be able to do normal wizard things. And if they really think that Thomas "captured" Harry, then they should have do a research to try to save him, or, at the very least, completely cut their ties with him so Harry cannot tell the whampires any Council secret. That is precisely my point, everybody seems to be disgusted that Harry is with Thomas, but it is half-assed. Like, they should take one of these two positions a) panic that Harry in on a whampire pocket. Try to save him or consider him lost b) shrug and decide that Harry is not in danger and he can choose who to date/have sex/whatever. But they seem to be in a middle ground, which I do not understand well.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on July 18, 2024, 01:58:40 AM ---I (strongly) suspect that the victims' sexual preference has very little relevance to a strong whampire like Thomas or Lara; they could have almost anyone they want, male or female, gay or straight, regardless of "sexual preference."
--- End quote ---
I actually wonder about that. In theory, maybe. But I wonder if the preferences of the vampire matters in that. For ex, we're told the reason LR didn't mindrape Thomas (or his dead brothers) into submission is that his own tastes didn't run that way. I wonder if the whammy doesn't work as well if the vampire is totally uninterested in the target.
Also, there have been hints that the older Wizards can cancel the whammy entirely. IIRC, there was a scene where Lara was spinning the whammy on Harry and Stacy, and Harry was struggling to keep his thoughts straight, and then Stacy did something and it all just suddenly stopped.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 16, 2024, 10:08:21 AM ---I didn't read it that way, the way I read it was Harry, who was caught by surprise that she knew or had figured it out.
Page 208 Turn Coat, Luccio admits she knew Harry's mother and he starts to ask questions about her. Then Luccio says;
--- Quote ---Anastasia gave me a rather worn smile. "But she didn't spend all that time in Faerie, did she?"
I looked up at the rear view mirror, back toward Chateau Raith.
"And Thomas is the son of the White King himself."
I didn't answer.
She exhaled heavily. "You look so different from him. Except perhaps for something in the jaw. The shape of the eyes."
--- End quote ---
Granted it could go either way, but when Luccio says that Margaret didn't spend all of her time with the Fae, I think she already knew who Thomas was. And in truth, if anyone on the Council took the time to think about it, they would have figured it out as well. If Eb didn't, I think it was because he chose to keep his head in the sand about having a vampire for a grandson.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that part you could read either way, but there's an earlier part of the conversation that gives a different twist. Justine had said something during the conversation back at Chez Raith, and Harry had hoped Stacy hadn't noticed it. She had, and she brings it up during the ride afterward. He tells her he can't discuss it with the Captain of the Wardens, but maybe he can with Anastasia. Then he asks her if she has any living family. They talk about that for a moment, and Harry mentions growing up as an orphan.
Then Harry adds, his throat tight:
--- Quote ---"And if I did find someone, I would do anything necessary to protect him. Anything.
--- End quote ---
It's at that point that Stacy puts the final pieces together.
--- Quote ---
Anastasia looked out the window, letting out a hiss of what sounded like anger. "Margaret. You selfish bitch."
--- End quote ---
When you add that part in, it looks like Stacy knew that Margaret had disappeared off the Wardens' radar, unaccounted for, for five years or so. She also knew that Margaret had had dealings with Lord Raith. It was Justine's comment (which may or may not have been Nemesis-related) that give her the clue that led her very sharp mind to put the pieces together and realize that Harry and Thomas are half-brothers.
That whole conversation is actually very important. It reveals a lot about why the Council does what it does. Stacy says specifically that the Laws of Magic are 'not about justice', or fairness. She tells Harry a lot about his mother.
The weird thing about the conversation, though, is that what Stacy says doesn't match what he heard from Eb, Nicodemus, Chaunzoggorth, Lord Raith, Thomas, etc. All their versions more or less tally, it's Stacy's version that is the odd one out. Now it could be that Stacy is just leaving out the worst of it to spare Harry's feelings. But the really weird thing is that Harry's internal monologue doesn't seem to notice the discrepancy.
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
Mira:
--- Quote ---That whole conversation is actually very important. It reveals a lot about why the Council does what it does. Stacy says specifically that the Laws of Magic are 'not about justice', or fairness. She tells Harry a lot about his mother.
The weird thing about the conversation, though, is that what Stacy says doesn't match what he heard from Eb, Nicodemus, Chaunzoggorth, Lord Raith, Thomas, etc. All their versions more or less tally, it's Stacy's version that is the odd one out. Now it could be that Stacy is just leaving out the worst of it to spare Harry's feelings. But the really weird thing is that Harry's internal monologue doesn't seem to notice the discrepancy.
--- End quote ---
Would have to go back and reread the whole chapter again. One thing that could be a factor is the fact that Anastasia was heavily under the influence of Peabody ink at the time, and was trying to manipulate Harry. As per Harry's last conversation with Rashid in the infirmary when he was told about the ink, how much under control Anastasia was by Peabody. Long and the short of it Anastasia was basically following orders to get close to Harry. At the time when she told Harry about his mother, he had real feelings for her. People in love don't always have the best judgement, thinking she loved him may have led Harry to trust everything she told him, even if it clashed with what others had told him.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Dina on July 18, 2024, 02:58:17 AM --- ... I mean, sure, Harry could have been in Thomas thrall, but then, I think he would not be able to do normal wizard things ...
--- End quote ---
I think if the whampire just crushes the wizard's will with overwhelming lust, said wizard likely couldn't muster the focus to flickum his bickus, iykwim.
But a more careful, slower seduction... or giving them some recovery time (while still keeping them on a psychic leash)... wizards treated that way could (I think) still be very capable.
I don't recall which story it was, where Harry discovered just such whampire controls buried in a lawyer's mind, leaving the very-finely-disciplined legal intellect essentially unimpaired. I presume it would be similar for a wizard, and their mental discipline.
--- Quote from: Dina on July 18, 2024, 02:58:17 AM --- ... And if they really think that Thomas "captured" Harry, then they should have do a research to try to save him, or, at the very least, completely cut their ties with him so Harry cannot tell the whampires any Council secret. That is precisely my point, everybody seems to be disgusted that Harry is with Thomas, but it is half-assed. Like, they should take one of these two positions a) panic that Harry in on a whampire pocket. Try to save him or consider him lost b) shrug and decide that Harry is not in danger and he can choose who to date/have sex/whatever. But they seem to be in a middle ground, which I do not understand well.
--- End quote ---
I find this very well-reasoned & persuasive. I can only "make excuses" for the White Council here; explain how their motivation could work out to the actions they did. They clearly didn't do things they "should" do (as you clearly laid out, above).
To begin with, I think the WC is stultifying under centuries of tradition and multiple layers of no-longer-relevant bureaucratic policy. In particular, much of the supernatural world is roiling and unstable and innovating, in light of the upcoming Starborn Cycle terminus; but the WC hasn't adjusted or adapted. In particular, they have a tradition of letting every wizard do whatever, independently, and only step in with Warden Action when the wizard goes too far. So they may be a bit suspicious of Harry being whampire-dominated, but that's his business until/unless it goes towards breaking the Laws of Magic.
That scene in Peace Talks where Ramirez & Co confront Harry about Lara, that's the WC beginning to "take official notice."
There's also, I think, some "we are the White Council" arrogant blindness going on, related to the aforementioned uptick in supernatural action (which the WC hasn't matched, or adapted to). They don't/can't believe any group would be so self-confident as to attempt such a brazen subversion of a WC wizard and warden.
The WC hasn't noticed -- as an organization -- that many of the other supernatural powers have in fact become much more-active and much more-aggressive, and that they -- the WC -- are beginning to look (to those predators) much like an aging buck: still impressive, but no longer quite up to the task of protecting the herd... or itself.
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