The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Book of Kremmler
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 11, 2023, 10:38:45 PM ---The case could be argued either way.
Lash (and Lasciel's Shadow) clearly knew how to do it... and Lash "left behind" a musical gift; that could have been Jim foreshadowing of other things Harry "inherited" (or, not).
Harry certainly *claimed* (to Mab) that he had the Denarian option available, and earlier we know (from the Cold Days flashback) that neither he nor Molly thought he had the poker face to bluff Mab. So I'm inclined to think he still knew how to summon the Blackened Denarius.
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The problem I have with that is why then did Lasciel seek revenge by influencing Harry to kill himself rather than convince him that the coin was the answer? I think he either couldn't or his rejection of the coin was so complete, that even if he could it was a bluff. Mab would know he wasn't serious about either summoning a coin or calling up the Darkhallow.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2023, 01:00:00 PM --- The problem I have with that is why then did Lasciel seek revenge by influencing Harry to kill himself rather than convince him that the coin was the answer?
...
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She already HAD a host that she liked, in Hannah Asher. Strong fire-sorceror (even stronger than Harry, at least with fire) more-easily manipulated & controlled.
Lasciel had already invested all the time she could afford to waste, with on Harry. One of the repeating cluebats (that the Dresdenverse is beating Harry with) is that there isn't much time left; even the millennia-long perspectives of the Fallen are being compressed and rushed. Lasciel cannot afford to be side-tracked from the bigger apocalyptic game with another long slow attempt at tempting Harry (likely-enough another failed attempt).
Last but not least, Lasciel said it herself: "Hell hath no fury like..."
vincentric:
Harry didn't want to summon the Coin or perform a Darkhallow unless he had no option left. He went through his choices of powerups in what he considered the least evil option order. So, Uriel first, then Mab and we don't know what would have been next, though I suspect the Coin before the Darkhallow, because Mab stepped up.
Mira:
--- Quote from: vincentric on September 12, 2023, 02:13:32 PM ---Harry didn't want to summon the Coin or perform a Darkhallow unless he had no option left. He went through his choices of powerups in what he considered the least evil option order. So, Uriel first, then Mab and we don't know what would have been next though I suspect the Coin before the Darkhallow because Mab stepped up.
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Exactly
--- Quote ---She already HAD a host that she liked, in Hannah Asher. Strong fire-sorceror (even stronger than Harry, at least with fire) more-easily manipulated & controlled.
--- End quote ---
We don't know that she had a Host at that point. If Hannah at that point was her host, would she have been free to torment Harry? I don't think Hannah without Lasciel's help would have been stronger in fire than Harry.. And in the end Harry applied a little fire himself to the rock ceiling, melted it enough to fall upon her head and bury her.
--- Quote ---Lasciel had already invested all the time she could afford to waste, with on Harry. One of the repeating cluebats (that the Dresdenverse is beating Harry with) is that there isn't much time left; even the millennia-long perspectives of the Fallen are being compressed and rushed. Lasciel cannot afford to be side-tracked from the bigger apocalyptic game with another long slow attempt at tempting Harry (likely-enough another failed attempt).
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Possible
--- Quote ---Last but not least, Lasciel said it herself: "Hell hath no fury like..."
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Yup..
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2023, 06:01:23 PM --- ... We don't know that she had a Host at that point...
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No, you're right. I was conflating another moment.
It's always possible that Hannah was lying, but she claimed (during the duel in Hades' vault) that (as of Changes) she was actually allied with the Order of St.Giles and "fighting the good fight." Part of what turned her to despair & picking up Lasciel's denarius was watching all her new friends and allies get destroyed by the Blood-Curse ritual.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2023, 06:01:23 PM --- ... I don't think Hannah without Lasciel's help would have been stronger in fire than Harry ...
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According to Harry, I think she was.
She was known to the Wardens as a dangerous, combat-heavy fire-mage.
Every warden who went after her would have been prepped accordingly.
But she took down multiple fire-prepped wardens with just fire-magic.
A big part of what makes Harry so dangerous is that he's got so many arrows in his quiver. Fire mage, air mage, force/telekinesis mage, potion-maker, vulcanomancy... necromancy! And serious sideline-talents with earth-magic, water-magic (per WoJ, I don't think we've seen it in the books). Savvy-enough and strong-enough to disrupt the workings of Entropy-mages.
Hannah Ascher is a MUCH less robust target than Harry Dresden!
And yet -- just with fire-magic -- she was able to take down warden after warden.
Harry could have done it, likely. But not if they knew ahead of time what kind of magic he'd use...
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