The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Is the "Black Council" just ... Cowl?

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Snark Knight:

--- Quote from: Melriken on April 21, 2023, 05:07:07 PM ---Any Nimfected members of the Circle don't need to communicate with each other to coordinate, so spies would only have access to conversations between Nimfected and patsies... makes the conspiracy harder to find.

--- End quote ---

And I'd be highly surprised if Nemesis doesn't have the same ability to shroud its immediate surroundings from being spied on by Anduriel that Mab, the Knights, Alfred etc have.

Stewing over which of his associates was "our Judas" wouldn't have been a running uncertainty for Nic if he could spy on Nemesis.

Yuillegan:
Again, Harry literally suspects that his entire idea of a "Black Council" is wrong and it might all just be Nemesis.

That said, Cowl doesn't seem nemfected. Nemesis infected agents tend to pretend they are themselves and do weird and creepy and insane things in the shadows and only reveal themselves when caught (if they ever do).

Cowl seems to have his own plan.

I would say it's likely a bit of both. The Circle (as the Black Council might call themselves) and Nemesis (and the Outsiders) are quite possibly in league - who is in charge is more interesting to note.

As for Mab and Anduriel etc. not knowing...who says they don't know? They may just choose to keep certain information to themselves. Anduriel likely hides information from Nic after all. Mab is under no obligation to reveal everything she knows to Harry or anyone else. Remember, Vadderung knows at least some of the players. He admits as much during Harry's first meeting with him in Changes.

Beyond that, it isn't like the "Black Council" doesn't have it's own heavy-weight support. It could well be that there are powerful entities hiding much of the activities and identities of the members of the Black Council. And perhaps it's also that they are just very, very clever. Human intelligence often seems to be undervalued by supernatural beings and yet time and time again we see it triumph. Cowl definitely seems to be highly intelligent. I suspect he isn't the only one on the team.


--- Quote from: Melriken on April 21, 2023, 05:07:07 PM ---The name of the organization is The Circle.  It is possible that Cowl is the entirety of the leadership of the Circle, but I don't lean in that direction... I did consider it (I think in that other thread) but it doesn't really ring true.

--- End quote ---
I mean, I agree that it probably is the Circle. But we don't know that as a fact. It's just a possibility. But a highly probable one at that.

I am not so sure they have leaders, myself. But yes, I doubt Cowl is the ultimate leader if they do have one. Their very own "Merlin" if you like. No, I suspect there is something worse in the shadows, as always.


Also, I am not convinced about the idea of cells. I would need to see more evidence of independent cells operating, and perhaps even working concurrently maybe even with competing aims. So far, everything that seems to be linked to the Black Council all seems to be done to further the same aims. Their doesn't seem to be an element of isolation, more a nebulous hand guiding everything along.


--- Quote from: Melriken on April 22, 2023, 04:15:09 AM ---Given the way Harry uses a ton of different names for mother winter… and clearly not all of them… I think 7th son and nameless and several other titles would work as names… not as well as a proper name, but I don’t think not having a proper name is that great of an advantage.

--- End quote ---
You might want to re-read Storm Front. Lots of emphasis on the power of real names over nicknames and monikers. There is also an old WOJ about how if the White Council took on Mab, they would need all their wizards PLUS her True Name (so using Mab wouldn't be enough to actually control her).

That said, it isn't everything or nothing either. Harry bound Ethniu using that name. Is that her True Name? Maybe, but like Vadderung or Odin that name merely represents a facet of the whole being. So I doubt it. But perhaps it's enough when combined with other things (like Arma Christi and Demonreach etc). Maybe it's enough because they choose to bind themselves to a form, and by using a name and diminishing themselves into a single form, they leave themselves vulnerable to being controlled by a moniker. Perhaps that's why Vadderung and Drakul have held multiple identities over the years. Perhaps they see the value in being forgotten every few centuries and not allowing themselves to be at risk of being bound.

Conspiracy Theorist:
The same people popping up time after time under a different alias makes it initially difficult for their opponents to get a handle on them, obviously when it becomes apparent to their opponent who they are then they can enact countermeasures against them under their prime identity, it also protects them whilst using their alias. Who would think Beowulf could be defeated by a summoning of Odin? Or that an attack against a named individual like Beowulf would fail because that is not his true name.

Such use of an alias is limited, not a limitation Nameless suffers from, reach past his alias and there is nothing, he has lived “off the grid’ his entire life. If Nameless is indeed Cowl his intent is to reach god status, and that would put him beyond what the Outsiders intend, the destruction of humanity and creation.
The end of linear time would for example not affect him any more than other gods, angels and Outsiders, it would destroy everything else collapsing the multiverse until/perhaps a new order is established, where anyone on the god tier may influence any new creation as they see fit.

Cowl and the Outsiders therefore have no conflict they are fellow travellers and allies because Nemesis needs someone with mortal free will within creation to summon and aid in destroying the Outer Gates. By that point Cowl doesn’t intend to be human anymore so all his allies, agents and catspaws are in for a shock they will not rule under him, they will cease to exist.

Melriken:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 23, 2023, 10:27:36 PM ---You might want to re-read Storm Front. Lots of emphasis on the power of real names over nicknames and monikers. There is also an old WOJ about how if the White Council took on Mab, they would need all their wizards PLUS her True Name (so using Mab wouldn't be enough to actually control her).

That said, it isn't everything or nothing either. Harry bound Ethniu using that name. Is that her True Name? Maybe, but like Vadderung or Odin that name merely represents a facet of the whole being. So I doubt it. But perhaps it's enough when combined with other things (like Arma Christi and Demonreach etc). Maybe it's enough because they choose to bind themselves to a form, and by using a name and diminishing themselves into a single form, they leave themselves vulnerable to being controlled by a moniker. Perhaps that's why Vadderung and Drakul have held multiple identities over the years. Perhaps they see the value in being forgotten every few centuries and not allowing themselves to be at risk of being bound.
--- End quote ---
A true name is strong... 7th son or the nameless one wouldn't work as well as a true name.  But when Harry summon's mother winter mother summer is worried that he knew a powerful name and mother winter clarifies herself and says no not that one... 7th son or Nameless would work as a name in the sense that the poem from DB worked to summon the Erl King... it isn't his name, but it acts as a name to summon him.  His true name would be stronger and better, but the Poem gets the job done.  Similarly 7th Son would get the job done, though it wouldn't be as good as a true name.

Also Harry gives Chauncy parts of his name, and they can be used against him, but they aren't as good as Harry's whole name, which he doesn't give...

Nameless' mother did him a favor by not giving him a name, but I don't think it is as big an advantage as some people are making it out to be.  People act like the lack of a name is the same as the lack of a Threshold when putting up wards... they can't last more than a few days without the threshold to support them (never mind that Demon Reach and the Castle both have strong wards without a threshold) and I think the lack of a name is more like a weak threshold (because you are forced to use weak names) like a bachelor's or an apartment or like Mort's office in the same building as his home (he also has the Bachelor issue)...

The_Sibelis:
There's some possibilities for overlap of cat's paws making different actions too. Take everyone at the victory council in BG and assume each has been acting independently in their own way through their own catspaw. I add in alt and future Harry's, as well as other characters based on different takes on whom they may be..
Fool moon I find fits better as Odin and EK both poking at the hornet's nest in their own way. The belts were only black magic in mortal hands I believe. Making them wasn't itself evil. And they directly bargained for them. Hunters.. The berserker gang had old ties to Odin's kin. (Iirc he even mentioned his power being spread out in his descendants) the Loup was not only the ultimate hunter, but I think the primary catalyst for everything that has followed.. I think the original curse actually bound fear bringer to that particular form, and Harry's actions fulfilled the prophecy by bringing forth the end of days. Freeing him to try to manifest elsewhere multiple times.
The attack on arctis tor didn't fit for a long time. Not that they assaulted it, but that they left hellfire behind when they should have avoided it. It was left intentionally I think. To point mab at Marcone as the holder of Nam. He didn't do it, but he is the Judas" to Nic. Him and Marcone can't be anything less than THE Knight of the blackened denarius. This meant that Mab had to look into who had Nam to find out if they needed vengeance from her. Obviously he's still standing tho. In the moment likely the attack involved making sure they could save Molly.
Kravos I see as an attempt to manifest fear bringer.
Tho I've come to a new ironic theory for what the group Raith had originally been involved with was now... The same one Harry realized was composed of aliens at best, the ones he stands with now. They all know and want to direct the power of the starborn, especially Dresden. Harry's the weapon they all wanted to forge for themselves. Beyond that the original 'council' is simply the factions and players from there, including Wizards unknown. Who probably have their own Nemesis infection driving them.

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