The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
morriswalters:
Harry knew what the name was and knew it below the level of conscious thought. He thought he created it and he did, some 1000 years ago, in a previous incarnation. ID Harry might even have an inkling of what's going on. It's that easy. Butcher spent some time in the latest books creating the idea that Demonreach can keep secrets and is. So figure Demonreach knew and just waited for Harry to figure it out. I don't think that's it, but there is no reason that it couldn't be.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 23, 2022, 01:57:50 AM ---Harry knew what the name was and knew it below the level of conscious thought. He thought he created it and he did, some 1000 years ago, in a previous incarnation. ID Harry might even have an inkling of what's going on. It's that easy. Butcher spent some time in the latest books creating the idea that Demonreach can keep secrets and is. So figure Demonreach knew and just waited for Harry to figure it out. I don't think that's it, but there is no reason that it couldn't be.
--- End quote ---
Apparently the island exists on several timelines in several dimensions at the same time as was explained to Harry in Cold Days by Alfred and Bob. Using that as a base it isn't hard to see that Harry did know a thousand years ago what he was going to name the island, but thinking too hard about it will give you a headache and acid indigestion... ???
Basil:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 23, 2022, 05:14:17 AM ---Apparently the island exists on several timelines in several dimensions at the same time as was explained to Harry in Cold Days by Alfred and Bob. Using that as a base it isn't hard to see that Harry did know a thousand years ago what he was going to name the island, but thinking too hard about it will give you a headache and acid indigestion... ???
--- End quote ---
Possibly. It certainly was created at several times at the same time.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Basil on January 23, 2022, 05:28:35 PM ---Possibly. It certainly was created at several times at the same time.
--- End quote ---
I basing this on when Harry and Bob visited the island in Cold Days, Harry learns about the attack. He is told it is coming the next day but then Alfred with Bob's help start in that it may have already happened etc.. So if that is possible, then Harry knowing what that he was going to name the island Demonreach a thousand years ago is totally possible in my opinion.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 22, 2022, 02:52:09 PM ---It is just a personal opinion, but I don't think Eb would make a "general" statement opinion in a personal journal. A private journal is meant to be just that, in other words, what his real personal opinion is, not meant for public access. So what does he say?
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I get what you're saying, but the entire Dresden Files series (not graphic novels so much or side stories of other characters) are meant to be Harry's journals. This much has been implied since Storm Front. Harry makes constant general statements through out the series. The very scene you reference is a massive nod to the fact that the series that we readers are reading are Harry's journals.
And that particular passage that Ebenezar wrote is deduced by Harry as being left for him to read. Ebenezar wanted Harry to a) think about what the Island might actually be b) let Harry know the Council is taking special interest (in a negative way) in him and c) that Harry has Ebenezar's support (despite the hint about Maggie).
--- Quote ---If you look at the first line of that paragraph, Eb is implying and it is true, that Harry stumbled into becoming Warden of the island. Harry no clue that the job even existed or that the prison existed, he was just desperate to come up with a way to defend Morgan from unjust treatment from the Senior Council and it was the only way his power could match theirs.
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If Harry didn't know the truth about the Island, why would he think claiming it would help match their power (which isn't necessarily true even now that Harry knows what the Island is and how to use it)?
Harry claimed the Island to give him a tactical advantage against a confrontation between him and the Skinwalker, the White Council and the White Court, and whichever Black Council operatives showed up to fight (including the mole in the Council i.e. Peabody). Harry had no idea the amount of tactical advantage the Island gave otherwise he would have won the battle far quicker and easier. He also had no idea the strategic value or the danger of the Island. He might have not rushed into it so quick otherwise.
--- Quote ---Then he talks about "fate" and guidance from a "higher power," in spite of some of the moves of the Council to thwart out of ignorance. So just what is the Council thwarting? Returning to the subject of the entry in the journal, the installation of a Warden for the island. Clearly because without a proper Warden as we see later in Cold Days and confirmed by Harry in the first chapter of Skin Game, the island is vulnerable. So you can say it was mere luck that Harry did what he did and became unwittingly Warden at a critical time.. Or fate and guidance that it was Harry who did this and not someone more corruptible for lack of a better word who got the job at this critical time .
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I think you're going too specific there, in regards to what the Council are thwarting. I see it more as Ebenezar saying that the Council are getting in their own way and if they just let their real allies like Harry help them they might actually achieve some good, but it's their internal machinations and one-eyed behaviour that make it so much harder on themselves. I say this as Ebenezar refers to this "higher power" arranging "events in [their] favor" rather than pointing out specifically that a higher power seems to want a Wizard in the role in contrary to the supposed views of the White Council. But perhaps we will have to agree to disagree here though. I do believe that the "higher powers" i.e. Heaven do seem to play 4D Chess, and Harry is one such piece. It is hard to really see "luck" in the Dresdenverse considering some of the powers that are involved. It might not be as direct as the Knights, but things do seem to be arranged that should Harry make certain choices things put the good guys in a better position. But for Heaven to actually place someone in a position, they run the risk of abrogating choice, which seems to be directly counter to their mission. It all comes down to what choices people make.
--- Quote ---Which gets us to the "ignorance" part of that statement. We know the Council isn't stupid, but at the same time they fear the island having a proper Warden so much that they'd rather risk it being successfully attacked than have one. Why? For starters if the Council at this point knew half of the "weapons" Harry has at his disposal they'd freak out more than they already have. But is that fear real? Consider what Mab told Harry in Battle Ground, that the prisoners were now his to control. If he wanted to use Ethniu to attack someone, he could make her do it. Now that would be very bad for the Council. But is she right? Mab can be mistaken, there must be some unwritten fail safes built in to prevent that. Why do I say that? If Kemmler was half as bad as they say he was, why didn't he do that very thing while he was Warden? What stopped him? Did Alfred or something else boot him off the island? In another thread someone said that Jim said he tried to get back to the island, but was prevented.. By the Council or the island itself? That is an important question. So by ignorance, I think Eb meant that the Council fears anyone who might control the prison because they are indeed ignorant of the fail safes that prevent the misuse of the inmates of the island's prison.
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Well, to be honest I think the Senior Council (in particular the Gatekeeper and the Merlin) are quite aware of some of the worst things in that prison. Which explains at least the Merlin's reaction. We don't know what the Gatekeeper said. Mab said Harry could do it...not that it would easy or even well controlled. We don't know the risks. I suspect that the battle of will would be intense, particularly the more powerful the being. The consequences of losing might be lethal, and not just to Dresden. We don't know how far a prisoner could go from the island, or how much control they would have outside the Island. Harry acknowledges that he could compel Ethniu but qualifies it that it would be "tricky and treacherous as hell" and "massively, massively unwise". We don't know what Kemmler did or didn't do while as Warden, although we do know he had powerful spirit allies too. The main thing that might have stopped Kemmler was that he knew the risks of trying to control a dark god or something and didn't think it might work out for him, not to mention that he spent only a little time on the Island as the Council worked very hard to prevent him from returning there after a while. Jim said the Council prevented him, hence why Luccio was in the Wild West in a Fistful of Warlocks (among other things). Do you really think Demonreach would stop a Warden using inmates to their advantage? I don't think Demonreach has a concept of morality. I think it only cares about the security of it's inmates, and putting more monsters in it's cells.
--- Quote ---Then he says;
Eb knows Harry a lot better than the Merlin does, he also loves him, he is his grandson. Eb doesn't think that Harry will turn into a monster just because he is now Warden of the island. Then he says he trusts Harry, but then adds as an aside that he also trusted Margaret, which is an admission that he sometimes makes mistakes in judgement.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure what point you are trying to make here...in any case I think all this shows is the danger in having the wrong person in the role of Warden, and so supports the idea it is better to have no Warden than a bad one.
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