The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 01, 2022, 03:41:44 PM ---From the text I get the impression that Carlos thinks Harry knows about cold case but he does not. Everyone keeps secrets in the dresdenverse and it leads to problems.
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I agree, I think Carlos doesn't know that Harry is unaware of the Cold Case incident. Also...I think it's fair to say everyone keeps secrets and it leads to problems, period. In all universes, especially in ours ;)
--- Quote from: Basil on December 27, 2021, 08:36:26 PM ---Harry also is The Warden, a position most recently held by ... Kemmler.
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Not actually Kemmler most recently. There was a Warden in-between but we don't know who. There may have even been two come to think of it. My guess is Justin was one of the recent Wardens. But he didn't tell anyone. There is a reason he lived in Chicago, after all. Maggie Le Fay is also a possible candidate.
--- Quote from: Basil on December 27, 2021, 08:36:26 PM ---Really, this is all about Merlin because Merlin has a very big Harry problem.
...
So, if you are Merlin, Harry absolutely f-ing terrifies you to your core. What, therefore, is your reasonable first step? In true British Empire fashion, you secure your power base and divide your enemies. You can't influence Mab or the White Court or Heaven and Hell. However, you can drive Harry apart from the supporters he has among your own people.
You can make Ramirez and the Younger Wardens suspicious of Harry. You can arrange things to get the Senior Council members that support Harry see how in thrall he is to Mab or the White Court or both. The fact that McCoy, LtW and Christos -- the most combat focused of the Senior Council got injured and weren't able to vote for Harry was a nice bonus.
Of course, Merlin also set things up a later win-win with McCoy. Either McCoy goes rogue and refuses to take out Harry and Merlin wins by getting rid of McCoy. OR, McCoy take out Harry and Merlin wins by removing such an unpredictable and dangerous person.
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I agree, although I am not so sure that he's afraid of Harry per se. We know the White Council had/has plans for Harry to do with his star born nature. We don't know what they are, but the plans and the fact they were kept from Harry make even relatively manipulative and deceitful beings pause, and make Ebenezar feel ashamed. So I think this is more Arthur Langtry trying to clean up a mess he is responsible for.
I suspect the plans were a "greater good" type of deal, but the poor unfortunate who has to be sacrificed is Harry.
--- Quote from: Mira on January 01, 2022, 04:35:05 AM --- A thought just occurred to me reading this post, what if the issue isn't trust, but jealousy? Carlos and Molly have had at least an attraction for one another since they met in White Night. Carlos also knows that she was Harry's apprentice from that time and the closeness between her family and Harry. From what happened in Cold Case, it wasn't just Molly who was ignorant of the sexual rules of the Winter Lady, but Carlos as well. What if out of his ignorance and real physical injuries Carlos assumes that Harry and Molly as Winter Knight and Winter Lady also have a relationship that is sexual in nature? This could also be planted in his mind while he is vulnerable to the idea. Could this have sparked jealousy in Carlos which led him to believe Harry capable of all kinds of things? When he is asking Harry to trust him, it isn't about trust, he wants a confession from Harry.
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Oddly enough, I think you're right (but from the opposite angle). I got an odd impression of jealousy when I read Cold Case, not from Harry but from Jim. It was almost like Carlos wasn't "allowed" to touch Molly, and Molly was to be protected. Or rather, her "purity". The whole scene bothered me. Don't get me wrong, I understood the logic of the scene. I just didn't like what the scene was saying, whether that was the intention of the scene or not.
I suspect when Harry finds out that Molly was prepared to sleep with Carlos, despite what ended up happening, Harry isn't exactly going to be cool with it. Particularly inner Harry.
But your theory stacks up as well. Carlos could well be jealous of Harry's possible relationship with Molly. Whether Harry acknowledges it or not (and think about how long it took for him to acknowledge his feels for Murphy), Harry and Molly have an emotional connection that is more than just familial or friendly. Molly of course is deeply in-love with Harry. But Harry can't get past his own hang-ups and admit to himself how he feels. And while I am deeply glad he never took advantage of their unequal relationship earlier in the series...things are different now. It's actually been pointed out to him more than once. Knowing how Jim works these things, I'd say it will take a few more books before anything happens - in which case I would be worried about Molly's survival.
morriswalters:
Maybe I'm stupid for thinking this. But this seems to be Cassius death curse writ in giant burning letters. Die Alone. Did I miss some women who got out of Harry's orbit in one piece? And Jim has already said that Molly's fate is dark. And I don't think Harry knows that the Ladies eat men who try to make babies with them. Nobody is stupid enough to have that discussion with Carlos knowing what she did to him.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 02, 2022, 08:18:54 AM ---Maybe I'm stupid for thinking this. But this seems to be Cassius death curse writ in giant burning letters. Die Alone. Did I miss some women who got out of Harry's orbit in one piece? And Jim has already said that Molly's fate is dark. And I don't think Harry knows that the Ladies eat men who try to make babies with them. Nobody is stupid enough to have that discussion with Carlos knowing what she did to him.
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Not afterwards but it seems that the white council has little knowledge about the creatures it has to interact with and interacted with for ages. Little shared knowledge anyway.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Not afterwards but it seems that the white council has little knowledge about the creatures it has to interact with and interacted with for ages. Little shared knowledge anyway.
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What speaks to that is Molly, herself, didn't know. Mab saw fit to tell her all kinds of things about her new role, but left that little fact out. One has to wonder why, especially in the light that that little bit of knowledge led to the frustration and downfall of her daughter, Maeve. So I'd say that it isn't a general knowledge thing, however looking objectively at Maeve's downfall, some might guess that this was the case. Who knows what Mab's motive for not telling Molly was, unless she thought experience would be a better teacher than anything she could say to Molly.
Carlos is a man of pride and a Warden of the White Council, do you think if he can avoid it he is going to reveal the truth of what really happened to him? 1] He has to openly admit that it was out of his own sexual frustration that he lost control with Molly while still technically on duty. Yes, I know his virginity has been an open joke in many ways, but outside of his inner circle who really knows about it? His cultural heritage alone wouldn't let that get out. Even if the incident itself was over I'd think until he returned to headquarters he'd still be considered on duty. This would blow his image of being one of the best Wardens of the White Council, maybe even get him removed from the force. It could even be that someone who knows about it is trying to blackmail Carlos with it to get to Harry.. 2] Carlos would have to openly admit that he was so ignorant of the Winter Court and their Ladies, that he'd leave himself open to what happened to him? In other words, at that moment he totally forgot what Molly had become, instead treated her like she was still the attractive woman/apprentice to Harry, that he had always been attracted to. If for no other reason, Carlos himself would do his best that the word wouldn't get out.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 02, 2022, 08:18:54 AM ---Maybe I'm stupid for thinking this. But this seems to be Cassius death curse writ in giant burning letters. Die Alone. Did I miss some women who got out of Harry's orbit in one piece? And Jim has already said that Molly's fate is dark. And I don't think Harry knows that the Ladies eat men who try to make babies with them. Nobody is stupid enough to have that discussion with Carlos knowing what she did to him.
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I would agree, but women died around him and Harry was lonely prior to the death curse. I think it's more to do with Harry's fate, his lifestyle.
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 02, 2022, 09:27:26 AM ---Not afterwards but it seems that the white council has little knowledge about the creatures it has to interact with and interacted with for ages. Little shared knowledge anyway.
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To quote the Gatekeeper "the Council knows as much as it needs to". But Harry's education was fairly patchy too so I am not sure he is a good indicator of "common" knowledge.
I doubt many apart from the Fae know about the Ladies tendency to kill (or attempt to kill) potential mates. This is dangerous information to be known by others, because a clever person could work out the mantle was defending itself, and therefore believes it is vulnerable. If someone wished to unmake a mantle, to seriously unbalance a Court of Faerie, they could attempt to seduce a Lady. This is the mantle's defence mechanism.
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