The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
Conspiracy Theorist:
No, this was not an attack on Mab, she was not the intended target, if Maeve had succeeded Mab would have survived. She only turned up when it failed, to get her new Winter Lady.
The quotes are either lazy writing or Nicky is quoting someone else, that “someone else” is likely the Black Council Denarian. There is no indication Nicky is working with the Black Council (wittingly at least).
It would be typical of Jim to show us something only for us to not realise the import at the time. The rules of the NeverNever are such that Demonreach would back onto somewhere similar in the Never Never. We have seen Mab’s punishment room, her prison for the poweful the other likely option is Tartarus in Hades realm, less likely as that is a prison for ordinary souls.Maeve wouldn’t be able to access Tartarus, and wouldn’t dare, Rashid might have access, but both would have to have access from the same point to get onto Demonreach via the Never Never.
Merlin clearly built Demonreach as the ultimate prison, so he won’t have left the backdoor to the NeverNever unguarded, and will have designed a congruency into its creation with a particular point in the Never Never.
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---“What do you suppose will happen to you if you do not heed Mab’s command?” “Command?” I asked. “Don’t be coy, child,” Mother Summer sniffed. “What my counterpart knows, I know. Mab commanded you to slay Maeve. What do you think will happen if you disobey her?” I walked for a while before I answered, “It depends whether or not Mab’s still around when the smoke clears, I guess,” I said. “If she is . . . she’ll be upset. I’ll wind up like Lloyd Slate. If she isn’t . . .” “Yes?” “Maeve assumes Mab’s mantle and becomes the new Winter Queen.”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 333). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
This is explicit and straightforward. Cold Days was meant to be the coda on the story to that date.. And with the exception of one or two points it clears the books.
That quote isn't an accident. Butcher does this a lot as in these two examples from Summer Knight and Proven Guilty.
--- Quote ---Sudden blue light gathered around her fingers, and the temperature in the room dropped by about forty degrees. She spoke again, and flicked her wrist, sending glowing motes of azure flickering toward Slate.
The snowflake brand flared into sudden light, and Slate's advance halted, his body going rigid. The skin around the brand turned blue, then purple, then black, spreading like a stop-motion enhanced film of gangrene. A quiet snarl slipped from Slate's lips, and I could see his body trembling with the effort to continue toward Maeve. He shuddered and took another step forward.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---He shivered then, and when he exhaled his breath came out in a long, frosty plume. The temperature had dropped maybe forty degrees in the space of a minute.
I struggled to ignore the sounds of frightened people in the dark and focused on my magical senses. I reached out to the cold and the gloom, and found it a vaguely familiar kind of spellworking, though I couldn’t remember precisely where I’d encountered it before.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---“What’s wrong?” Rawlins asked, his voice tight.
We passed under one of the hotel’s emergency light fixtures, its floodlights only dim orange rings in the murk until my amulet’s light burned the shadows away. “Dark magic,” I growled through clenched teeth. “A kind of ward. Trying to keep me from moving ahead.”
--- End quote ---
I just showed you where he had seen it. And he runs into the same ward that Slate did. Murk is also used in this scene and is used again in Small Favor.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Of course each Mother knows what the other does, they are both Intellectus. Doesn’t apply to Queens or Ladies.
Those quotes do not point to an attack on the succession, they point to an attack to prevent Maeve betraying Winter. Remember Mad had an inside man for decades way before Grave Peril.
morriswalters:
The Mother's know what each does for a number of reasons. The are part of something that was split to make them, maybe Hecate. They are also the Fates. When Harry summons Mother Winter he uses her other names.
--- Quote ---Athropos! Skuld! Mother Winter, I summon thee!”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 319). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
Leading to this exchange.
--- Quote ---Mother Winter’s rocker creaked, though it didn’t really seem to move. “He knew certain names. He was not wholly stupid in choosing them, or wholly wrong in using them.” Mother Summer’s bright green eyes narrowed. “Did he . . . ?” “No,” croaked Mother Winter. “Not that one. But he has seen the adversary, and learned one of its names.”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 329). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
Mab has given her word to defend the Gates. There is no outcome where the Gates are opened that ends with Mab as a living Queen. Butcher has pretty much made that explicit. The recurring theme throughout Cold Days is who does Harry need to kill.
I going to share some random thoughts since we seem to be talking past each other. The tendency is to look at the Queens and think the Hecate was split into Winter and Summer and then to Mother, Matron and Lady. Butcher in one of the thousands of WOJ's says that is incorrect. I suspect the third Fate's manifestation is the Outer Gates.
I think that the Lady and the Knight were creations different then the Queens, that is that the Queen's become part of Hecate but the Lady and the Knight don't. This is weakly supported in the text. One of the purposes of the Ladies Mantle may to be to remove the humanity from the person who assumes it to prepare them to be the Queen. And this would be why Molly and the Ladies cannot have sex.
Rashid may have been a former Winter Knight and may represent what Harry could become. That is purely speculative. I could go on but I think people are already rolling their eyes.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
I think that the Lady and the Knight were creations different then the Queens, that is that the Queen's become part of Hecate but the Lady and the Knight don't. This is weakly supported in the text. One of the purposes of the Ladies Mantle may to be to remove the humanity from the person who assumes it to prepare them to be the Queen. And this would be why Molly and the Ladies cannot have sex.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so, Skin Game page336
--- Quote ---"Is that Hecate?" Ascher murmured, staring up at the statues in awe. "The triple goddess of the crossroads, right?"
I swallowed. "Uh. It. . .Yes, it might be."
And it might also be Grannies Summer and Winter, Mab, Titania, Sarissa, and Molly Carpenter. But I didn't say anything about that.
--- End quote ---
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