The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry should have trusted Ramirez
Mira:
--- Quote ---Harry is the two year old in the analogy. The question was why make him Warden? You may be able accept that a prison guard at the most dangerous prison in the Universe took on Harry as the Warden without references. I'm having some trouble swallowing it. Seems
--- End quote ---
I guess that is a question for Jim isn't it? For starters while one can question Harry's judgement in doing the genus loki in the first place. I apologize for the spelling of that, haven't time to look it up this morning. Harry didn't ask for the job, he didn't kick and scream to get it, he didn't even know the job existed. I guess it is also a question for the island, why did it make Harry it's Warden? But here are a couple of points about that
1] If the Council had it's act together in the first place and the island had a proper Warden, Harry wouldn't have been able to do the thing he did to unwittingly become one.
2] The only thing the island requires apparently is someone with enough talent and strength to do it. This actually might be the way Kemmler became Warden in the first place. He wasn't appointed, but he knew of the island and what to do to become it's Warden..
3] Though the island has intellectus, it still needs a parent/Warden, because like all two year olds, the island has no judgement as far as knowing when it is in real danger.
One final thought about this is, someone on the Council must know all of this, yet they seem to think it a secret it won't happen.. Oh goodness, who is acting like a two year old now? So the island is left vulnerable, to attack, to the wrong person or entity becoming it's Warden, and lastly and more importantly, without a Warden, it has no way to jail those who really needs locking up..
So again, I ask you, who is the two year old?
morriswalters:
There was a prison called Alcatraz. What the people who put the prison in the bay wanted to do was keep the prisoners in and everybody else out. They did not have the Warden selected by a trial of strength between the chief screw and and random people from the mainland.
That is effectively how Harry got to be Warden. Not through wisdom or intelligence or knowledge of what he was doing. But by having a pissing contest with an intelligent rock to solve an unrelated problem. To say this is idiotic is to understate just how dumb the idea is in isolation.
The island has a fail safe that would destroy Chicago if activated. It holds Dark Gods and monsters. And then Butcher tries to convince me that Harry gets to be Warden by chance? If you can eat that apple then I envy you.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 28, 2022, 02:47:09 PM ---There was a prison called Alcatraz. What the people who put the prison in the bay wanted to do was keep the prisoners in and everybody else out. They did not have the Warden selected by a trial of strength between the chief screw and and random people from the mainland.
That is effectively how Harry got to be Warden. Not through wisdom or intelligence or knowledge of what he was doing. But by having a pissing contest with an intelligent rock to solve an unrelated problem. To say this is idiotic is to understate just how dumb the idea is in isolation.
The island has a fail safe that would destroy Chicago if activated. It holds Dark Gods and monsters. And then Butcher tries to convince me that Harry gets to be Warden by chance? If you can eat that apple then I envy you.
--- End quote ---
That is one interpretation. But maybe the island just used his intellectus to sense if Harry was warden material and the rest was just for show, to make it not too easy.
The job did save his life
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 28, 2022, 03:10:30 PM ---That is one interpretation. But maybe the island just used his intellectus to sense if Harry was warden material and the rest was just for show, to make it not too easy.
The job did save his life
--- End quote ---
Yes, and I also got the sense that Alfred bargained with Mab as well, for Harry to keep the job. Rereading the pages of Ghost Story when Harry first wakes up, Harry is her Knight, but apparently Alfred/the island like Uriel has something to say about the direction of Harry's life. I don't think on that basis that Mab will be trying to sabotage Harry on that front.
--- Quote ---There was a prison called Alcatraz. What the people who put the prison in the bay wanted to do was keep the prisoners in and everybody else out. They did not have the Warden selected by a trial of strength between the chief screw and and random people from the mainland.
--- End quote ---
For starters, Alcatraz is a mortal prison, Alcatraz did have a warden, and yes, the warden did have to meet certain qualifications to be appointed to the job. We don't know what the island wants in it's Warden, but as Morgan said, those with intellectus are immortal,because of that, there are dangers they cannot conceive of. So while the qualification of strength and talent are implanted on it, corruption, stupidity, and immaturity,might not be something it sees as a problem.
--- Quote ---That is effectively how Harry got to be Warden. Not through wisdom or intelligence or knowledge of what he was doing. But by having a pissing contest with an intelligent rock to solve an unrelated problem. To say this is idiotic is to understate just how dumb the idea is in isolation.
--- End quote ---
That is a flaw with the island, has nothing to do with Harry. He didn't even know about the prison, that the island needed a Warden, and once the island selected him, no one on the Senior Council or the Council at large prevented him from getting it. Mab and Uriel did nothing while Harry was in a coma on the island to prevent him from becoming the island's custodian. I am not sure Harry can even quit if he wanted to. In short, Harry wasn't acting like a two year old having a tantrum demanding the Warden job. The island decided he was up for it, and Harry accepted it like a man and is doing the best that he can. Whether that is good enough remains to be seen.
--- Quote ---The island has a fail safe that would destroy Chicago if activated. It holds Dark Gods and monsters. And then Butcher tries to convince me that Harry gets to be Warden by chance? If you can eat that apple then I envy you.
--- End quote ---
That is another question for Jim.. However since Harry has been Warden he managed, with help to prevent an Outsider invasion of the island and the bomb going off.. He also managed to jail a Titian who was hell bent on destroying Chicago and beyond.. He managed to figure out that Justine was infected with an Outsider, again saving the island, though that was close. I'd say so far he has done pretty well.. Now does that mean he won't make mistakes, costly ones,in the future? No, it doesn't, but that can be said of anybody in spite of qualifications or lack there of.
Oh and one last point when trying to compare Harry to a two year old. In Skin Game he also passed Hades' test to acquire those Artifacts.. Here is what Hades said; page 347 Skin Game
--- Quote ---"To prevent anyone without skill or commitment to use them well from having them," he said. "It is not my task to keep them from all of mortal kind---only from the incompetents."
--- End quote ---
Apparently that goes for becoming Warden of the island as well, Harry was competent enough to call it up and show his strength and commitment, and that is all that it required.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 28, 2022, 03:10:30 PM ---That is one interpretation. But maybe the island just used his intellectus to sense if Harry was warden material and the rest was just for show, to make it not too easy.
The job did save his life
--- End quote ---
I can't say what Butcher is thinking. I'm willing to accept that AI evaluated Harry and found him to be a worthy Warden. But then again according to Butcher he gave Kemmler the position.
@Mira
I never said Harry was a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. And I've repeated it three times. Two year olds may throw tantrums, but they also pick up loaded guns and kill themselves or others. Because otherwise rational adults leave guns where two year olds can get at them. I can't make it any clearer then that.
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