The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mab chose Molly
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote ---Sadly while I agree with you on the purity definition of a virgin, many cultures still rely on physical evidence.
--- End quote ---
relied, not rely.(it's not current, not in the age of masterbation and sex toys) could you give me a specific example and not a Salem witch hunt environment? Cause I could say we Americans have a rich culture of witch burning and what not, but that doesn't cover a handful of crazies in isolated incidents. Saying it's a cultural thing is greatly exaggerated. Even in India the rape capital of the world, and the middle east, the family has a tendency to cut off the offenders member and stuff it down their throat proper style.
But it's not the origins of it no, it's the we're going to control you and how you behave and are viewed misogyny that gives rapist that entitled mindset.(a cursor look at panati's origins of all things would save me quite the hassle here quite frankly)
More importantly this conversation has strayed from anything in the books when I don't even particular wish to discuss it in the first place. 👿 Farther replies should be confined to context on how they relate to what's in the books, specifically. Or I can just tell everyone to go &+$# themselves as I'm very close to doing at this point.
Arjan:
It is well documented in the present and in the past and the past is what we are interested in here. There are court ordered virginity tests in Iraq, google it.
The whole virginity thing is a misogynistic patriarchal tool to control young women and their sexuality so they can be traded with other families. Part of it is the fear of men, they have all the resources and they don’t want to spend them on other men’s children.
Because it is so old and ingrained in culture it is the stuff of myth and legend and because it is inevitable and everywhere it is reinterpreted, sanitized and dusted off but it is toxic.
The morals of old tales are not the morals of our time and place but it is not far away at all.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 19, 2021, 11:13:16 AM ---It is well documented in the present and in the past and the past is what we are interested in here. There are court ordered virginity tests in Iraq, google it.
The whole virginity thing is a misogynistic patriarchal tool to control young women and their sexuality so they can be traded with other families. Part of it is the fear of men, they have all the resources and they don’t want to spend them on other men’s children.
Because it is so old and ingrained in culture it is the stuff of myth and legend and because it is inevitable and everywhere it is reinterpreted, sanitized and dusted off but it is toxic.
The morals of old tales are not the morals of our time and place but it is not far away at all.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and one can Google "honor killings" they still happen.. Officially the law may now be against it, but the cultural element in families still runs very deep, and yes, the law often looks the other way. There is a real reason why women get their hymen sewed back together, it isn't because she enjoys the pain on her wedding night. Simply put, no hymen, ergo not a virgin, her family, her husband's family all dishonored, least could happen to her is to become an outcast, the worst, she could die for
it.. And yes, as Arjan points out, it is still happening today, not as often perhaps, but in some cultures it does.
Molly's Mantle reacted violently to Carlos because her physical virginity was being compromised. Now eventually she might find a way around that or to control that as Harry did the sexual urges of the Winter Knight's Mantle, but at the time she was too new, and it sounds from the story that that was one aspect of being Winter Lady that Mab neglected to explain to her. Who knows what Mab's motives were, maybe thinking the best way to learn is the hard way... Or maybe she thought that Molly and Harry were already lovers and a little rough sex wouldn't really hurt either of them.. Or the Fae Courts are really old school as far as virginity goes. Forget Molly for a moment, one of the things that really affected Maeve's mental health and gave Nemesis an opening was her sexual frustration. That is why she surrounded herself with the likes of Ginny Greenteeth, even Slate, she became a voyeur, if she could not have sex herself, she'd live it through others, and it got more twisted as the centuries rolled on.
Foreshadowing of all of this happened at the end of Proven Guilty, the famous scene where Harry dumped a bucket of ice water over Molly's head and told her on no on certain terms that as long as she was his apprentice, no sex. At the time we all thought it was a rather mean way to keep their relationship professional, but now we know that act made her suitable to become Winter Lady. Just another thorn in Harry's hide, the consequences of doing what he thought was right at the time, backfiring.
Oh and one more thing, there is a sexual double standard in the Winter Court, while the Winter Lady is supposed to remain a virgin, her mantle reacts violently to a sexual encounter.. The Winter Knight sees women as an object to dominate, thus the violent almost overpowering urge to rape.. One more little point, sexually frustrated Maeve chose Slate to be the Winter Knight, if I remember correctly he was a rapist as well as a drug addict before he became Knight. No doubt Maeve got her jollies watching him sexually assault the female members of her Court in the Underground of Chicago.
Mr. Mouse:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 19, 2021, 11:56:07 AM ---Molly's Mantle reacted violently to Carlos because her physical virginity was being compromised. Now eventually she might find a way around that or to control that as Harry did the sexual urges of the Winter Knight's Mantle, but at the time she was too new, and it sounds from the story that that was one aspect of being Winter Lady that Mab neglected to explain to her. Who knows what Mab's motives were, maybe thinking the best way to learn is the hard way...
--- End quote ---
Much like the way the Raiths don't tell Inari (or Barrowills Carol) about the Hunger that will kill their first sexual partner initiating them into full White Court vampirism.
--- Quote ---Oh and one more thing, there is a sexual double standard in the Winter Court, while the Winter Lady is supposed to remain a virgin, her mantle reacts violently to a sexual encounter.. The Winter Knight sees women as an object to dominate, thus the violent almost overpowering urge to rape.
--- End quote ---
The Winter Lady's mantle amps up her libido as much as the Winter Knight's thereby making the double standard starker.
Mr. Mouse:
I have trouble making sense of the exchanges between Sarissa and Harry early in CD when she admits that Mab is making her available as a sexual partner for Harry if virginity is required to be a Lady. Yes, Harry says there'd be an element of coercion involved in any sex they had since Mab put them in this position (as she is also trying to do with Harry and Lara at the end of BG). Also, Mab is clearly trying to establish an emotional bond between Harry and Sarissa. If that bond is established and they're sexually active then at some point one would have to imagine her Free Will would override Mab's putting them together. Unless Cat Sith would have appeared at that most delicate moment and figuratively poured ice water over the pair.
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