The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
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Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Kindler on September 23, 2021, 03:41:31 PM ---Not going to lie, I was really, really disappointed when Bill, Yoshimo, and Chandler FINALLY got a chance to fight on the page, and got completely curbstomped. It wasn't even close. They even had a freaking Sasquatch as backup and got their teeth kicked in.
I don't think they were even in Harry's league, to be honest, at least not by Battle Ground. No idea how they'd have measured up pre-Changes, but Winter Knight Harry completely outclasses them, in my reading of it.
--- End quote ---
It was against blampires with no prep time. I think that was the only way it could have reasonably gone, especially with Drakul there to keep Harry's River Shoulders's attention. They're all bad news.
Numbers makes a big difference in a fight. I think individually, Harry could have taken down any of the wardens on that road, but altogether is much much harder.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 23, 2021, 03:58:12 PM ---Yeah, one wonders if Harry had decided to really object and resist the sex-scan and innuendo when they stopped him and Murphy upon their return from the Raith Estate how it would have turned out. Especially with Murphy as back up, even though she was crippled. Also if Chandler would have joined his fellow Wardens or would he have been as conflicted as he seemed and either stayed out of the fight or actually joined Harry?
--- End quote ---
I think Chandler is more loyal to Ramirez than to Harry tbh. I doubt he would have gone rogue to help him against the other wardens.
Kindler:
Jury's out on Steed for me. I can't get a good enough read on him. He could have just been playing Good Cop in that scene, but then again he's also the one who warns Harry about the attack on the Council in Changes. Then again again, he's also one of the ONLY young wardens left at liberty by that point, too, which means he's perceived as trustworthy by enough people with authority (who generally oppose Harry).
I like to think that his time-related magic specialization is giving him clearer glimpses into the future than anyone suspects. I think he's playing his part as best he can and carefully wriggling out of situations in order to support the best outcomes he can perceive. It's also possible that he knows more about people's pasts than he lets on, and uses that information to judge their character more accurately. Knowing someone's past alters the way you perceive them and your behavior toward/around them (at least it does for most people, in my experience).
I don't know what Chandler's deal is, to be honest. Though I fully anticipate him being the catalyst for whatever time travel book we eventually get.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on September 23, 2021, 05:08:42 PM ---It was against blampires with no prep time. I think that was the only way it could have reasonably gone, especially with Drakul there to keep Harry's River Shoulders's attention. They're all bad news.
Numbers makes a big difference in a fight. I think individually, Harry could have taken down any of the wardens on that road, but altogether is much much harder.
--- End quote ---
My issue isn't so much with the fact that they lost; it's that we finally get to see Harry's war buddies fight, and they get wiped. They've got a reputation for being survivors, tough customers, veterans of a bloody and brutal protracted conflict (and then a second one, against the Fomor). I would've liked to have seen them win a fight or three before this encounter, to justify the reputation Harry gives them. It's not quite the Worf Effect, because you at least saw Worf kick plenty of keisters before he started getting his own kicked in return, but it left a similar taste in my mouth.
Mira:
--- Quote ---It was against blampires with no prep time. I think that was the only way it could have reasonably gone, especially with Drakul there to keep Harry's River Shoulders's attention. They're all bad news.
--- End quote ---
They knew they were about to go into battle one way or another when they came across Mavra, Drakul and company, if they are good warriors, and Wardens supposedly are, then they should have been ready.
--- Quote ---Numbers makes a big difference in a fight. I think individually, Harry could have taken down any of the wardens on that road, but altogether is much much harder.
--- End quote ---
But he also had Murphy at his back, the two of them have squared off against enemies with much tougher odds and still won.
--- Quote ---I think Chandler is more loyal to Ramirez than to Harry tbh. I doubt he would have gone rogue to help him against the other wardens.
--- End quote ---
Maybe not full rouge, but at the same time he could have held back just enough not to be of help against Harry.
--- Quote ---My issue isn't so much with the fact that they lost; it's that we finally get to see Harry's war buddies fight, and they get wiped. They've got a reputation for being survivors, tough customers, veterans of a bloody and brutal protracted conflict (and then a second one, against the Fomor). I would've liked to have seen them win a fight or three before this encounter, to justify the reputation Harry gives them. It's not quite the Worf Effect, because you at least saw Worf kick plenty of keisters before he started getting his own kicked in return, but it left a similar taste in my mouth.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, they knew they'd be facing battle shortly, so they should have been ready for anything. Like you said, they may have still gone down, but they should have taken some with them before they did go down. After all Harry, Rivershoulders, and Listens to Wind, yes, and Carlos had the same amount of warning and were able to put up a fight.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 23, 2021, 05:44:06 PM ---They knew they were about to go into battle one way or another when they came across Mavra, Drakul and company, if they are good warriors, and Wardens supposedly are, then they should have been ready.
--- End quote ---
Drakul by himself could have stomped all of them, even if they had a year to plan. They can't beat him.
--- Quote from: Kindler on September 23, 2021, 03:41:31 PM ---Not going to lie, I was really, really disappointed when Bill, Yoshimo, and Chandler FINALLY got a chance to fight on the page, and got completely curbstomped. It wasn't even close. They even had a freaking Sasquatch as backup and got their teeth kicked in.
I don't think they were even in Harry's league, to be honest, at least not by Battle Ground. No idea how they'd have measured up pre-Changes, but Winter Knight Harry completely outclasses them, in my reading of it.
--- End quote ---
Harry survived because he was for Drakul. Mavra could have killed Dresden in an instant. He was helpless. He wouldn't have faired any better if Mavra wanted to kill him like the others.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Harry survived because he was for Drakul. Mavra could have killed Dresden in an instant. He was helpless. He wouldn't have faired any better if Mavra wanted to kill him like the others.
--- End quote ---
Huh? I don't remember Harry being "for" Drakul.. Harry fared better because when he sneezed huge iron anvils fell out of the sky.. Then again as Listens to Wind said, if you fight these kinds of creatures to a draw, it is a win..
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