The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Kind of confused about Old Ones and Outsiders

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The_Sibelis:
Cutting through some speculation with an alternative idea. The "Old Ones" might just be the proto gods and primordials we know of legend that aren't welcome here anymore.
If the idea the lord of slowest terror is Cronus is accurate, then they are simply some of the earlier god's who didn't agree with the new status quo. Beings tossed out, destroyed but not forgotten, ect. one possibility I wouldn't rule out is in the scale of existence to non existence, some things in the Necro territory exist Outside. Like... where a God would go to die. Indeed, the layers of the afterlife in the NN insulate such things from going into non-existence. impowering the closest layer of outside existence, things that used to exist. One thing we've seen in every level of spiritual being, from angels to ghosts all the way down to wizards, is if you don't play by certain cosmic rules, it invariably twists your nature.
These things could be beings twisted by simply trying to come back when they shouldn't.
Old Ones, could be quite literal, Old Gods.

Yuillegan:
That's certainly possible Sibelis. I don't think we have a ruling either way but I don't think we can comprehensively rule it out either.

I wouldn't be mad if that was the reveal either. I would be a little curious as Jim has seemingly created a strong distinction between Inside beings and Outsiders. But maybe he has a crucial piece of information that makes it work.

I think we'd need to find more evidence of their old identities to really make the theory substantial. I've seen your thoughts on Nemesis but I think you need more than just that. You'd need to find stronger links between the Old Ones/Old Gods and defeated deities.

A slight whole in this theory is that plenty of gods who have been defeated are not dead but "sleeping" or wrestling or imprisoned. Food for thought.

groinkick:
Maybe the Old Ones are all Starborn, and that's the reason the Outsiders are their foot soldiers.  Just as Lash told Harry he can wield power over them, maybe the Old Ones do it on a much larger scale.

Yuillegan:
Wow that would be a dark twist. I kinda like it.

Maybe even, they are the stars that give birth to star born. I remember something about this in Lovecraft. I think it was the Mountains of Madness.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 25, 2021, 06:21:39 AM ---That's certainly possible Sibelis. I don't think we have a ruling either way but I don't think we can comprehensively rule it out either.

I wouldn't be mad if that was the reveal either. I would be a little curious as Jim has seemingly created a strong distinction between Inside beings and Outsiders. But maybe he has a crucial piece of information that makes it work.

--- End quote ---
has he? I think he's dropped numerous hints the two are interconnected deeper than we know. Especially between Thomas, the WCVs and various levels of deity up to angelic. The hinted origins in Greek mythology with his soul gaze and it's mirror apparent to the outside,  the possible connections of their houses to the children of Ares and Aphrodite, being 'halfborn', ect.
--- Quote ---I think we'd need to find more evidence of their old identities to really make the theory substantial. I've seen your thoughts on Nemesis but I think you need more than just that. You'd need to find stronger links between the Old Ones/Old Gods and defeated deities.

--- End quote ---
ahh you've seen me discuss it, but have you delved into my original thread in the reference section? I've woven the same threads through many different theories. Things that prove they existed, things that show what happened to them, some things that have actually started to come to pass in BG, things predicted entirely on a nemesis connection.(the walker's subverting and being connected to the KotC "elements")
--- Quote ---A slight whole in this theory is that plenty of gods who have been defeated are not dead but "sleeping" or wrestling or imprisoned. Food for thought.

--- End quote ---
that one has been heavily discussed,(coincidentally it has alot to do with my ideas on balance of order vs chaos in the DF, think of the black dot in the white part of the Ying-yang symbol) and I'm not sure why it'd be a hole? Just pulling on the generic Lovecraft connection, some were defeated, some left, some stayed, some slumber and some rule as Gods. All in one mythos.
Though... If'n you wanna get into my thoughts on it. MW IS demon reach, and the sleepers are what's manifesting at the outer gates, which is a proverbial manifestation of what is basically the balance of power between MW, and the willpower of all the things that she's eaten or represents. Crazy right?
I think, all these various pantheons or things have taken one form of non existence or another and attempt to cross what is the original veil to reality. The sleepers dream, and in dreaming create a shared bubble from where they try to penetrate reality and wake themselves. The walker's I think, were sacrifices on the stone table, giving them no essence or identity inside reality but what they can steal from it. Then we get into the things that have been destroyed,(Cronus probably, the phrasing "Time itself moves against us" makes me think so, perhaps time itself is Cronus slowly reconstituting and what we're experiencing is the slow crawl of his vast power?) or locked away in other forms in mythos and beyond that into things that have never been part of realities bubble and don't like reality obstructing their non existence.
Inside the DF Harry says most people think the outsiders all work together and have the same goal. I think it's far more likely they work together for similar goals all hoping to come out on top.

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