The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What will Eb do?
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---Wizard hexes, sure. Not Vampire hexes though! Harry has employed mortal agents before in order to get what he needs, like that ex-cop PI in Turn Coat. But even non-technological aids like tracking chips. Even good old fashioned recon and intel. One guy with eyes on the target calling in the air strike, for example. Or even just learning where a certain person will be and planning accordingly. There's plenty of non-magical means that wouldn't be hard to implement. No, I think Ebenezar had other reasons for not pursuing the White King...assuming he did in the first place.
Honestly, probably just a hole in Jim's story. Nothing deeper than that. Same with the ages of Lord Raith's children being so much younger.
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Maybe, but I don't think it would be too hard to justify from Eb's perspective.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---Mostly because she's in charge and supernatural beings tend to go for the whole seniority denotes authority. She might not be though, I grant you. I don't believe it's stated ever she is the oldest or first born or anything along those lines.
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Glad to know it's not just me not remembering things ;D
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---I did actually say they had thrown their vampire whammy at other White Court vampires (but I forgive you for missing it, I did present a wall of text). Well, probably the main reason is it causes White Court vampires of House Raith to try and screw their victims. I can't imagine they would attempt that on uber-ghouls or skinwalkers etc. And yes, perhaps it wouldn't be all that useful in a fast fight and they prefer to rely on their speed and strength. Maybe it's only a last resort weapon when the Hunger takes over. But Lord Raith didn't mind just zapping people once upon a time (and perhaps other tricks). So presumably, it can be used in combat. Which is why I wonder about the effectiveness on particular beings.
That, and actual combat. Basically wearing down Mab by fighting and whammying until she succumbed. Pretty horrible fight I imagine. Not even sure it would work without the White King absorbing some of her hits. She is terrifyingly powerful. I believe Jim said it was pretty long odds anyway, even with the whole White Court.
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Ah, I misunderstood.
Too much friendly fire makes the most sense to me for not throwing it harder in big group fights with Harry around, and stuff like Shagnasty is too big a bite to even attempt without enough whampires there.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---Oh I agree Grey isn't at the same level as Shagnasty. I think being a shapeshifter he would try and impersonate a delicious mortal meal and then attack him with overwhelming force while his guard is down. But I don't doubt Grey also can use mortal weapons too. I doubt he would try the same tactic of overwhelming force as Shagnasty. Considering Grey can turn his hands into sickles of bone he could quite possibly decapitate and/or eviscerate Lord Raith if he got the jump on him. I can imagine he knows which of his many shapes would work best. Notice he turned into something particularly suited to fighting Ursiel/the Genoskwa. Also, the old fashioned kidnap and kill. Even something built to trap and render Lord Raith immobile would work well enough. The real question is whether McCoy and Grey would work together at all.
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Huh, Grey is basically a good-guy version of Clayface. Probably not as strong as Raith (Thomas bends barbells). Whampire nature would nullify most poisons to knock him out for a kidnapping. Grey might be able to manage something since he's resourceful, but I don't see an obvious tactic with an acceptable success rate. Papa Raith should be most dangerous against a delicious meal.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---See, as much as I get your reasoning with Luccio I think she will die. She's part of the old guard. In a world where the White Council is remade (which won't necessarily happen should the White Council collapse), I can't imagine any of the old guard will be around. It will be a new generation, for a new world. Also, Luccio is another person who the death owl is hovering over (at least to me). I don't think she'll survive too much longer. She's a very killable character and Jim needs characters to kill. If the Merlin goes soon, I think the Council's collapse would be imminent. If not, it would probably mean someone like Cristos taking over and the Council becoming much worse - or flat-out evil (if Cristos is Black Council, for example).
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I actually think Luccio may survive a while yet. She's gotten around the doom of being Harry's girlfriend. She's supportive of a softer take on the Laws while still understanding why they were codified in the first place. That being said, she is very killable.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 02:41:06 AM ---I get what you mean. No one that wields the Blackstaff should be comfortable using it. But considering Eb chooses his successor, I can only see him choosing Harry. Certainly not Ramirez over Harry. The only way Ramirez might even get it would be if he picked it up literally off the ground right after Eb dies. But as I say, I don't think Ramirez is prepared to get into the world of grey. He sees the world still too black and white. Look at his most recent argument with Dresden.
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Yeah, but I don't see Eb going down without a fight. He's not quietly retiring and handing his staff to someone he picks. Ramirez is gonna be at his side, then. Harry doesn't particularly want the staff, and it would keep him from a fight with Ramirez.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on August 10, 2021, 04:49:09 AM ---It's interesting to note that in all the iterations I could find, Ziusudra/Noah/etc has a wife, but she's never named. Noah's wife's name is speculated, but isn't known for sure. But in the case of Ziusudra and Atrahasis, the wife was made immortal too.
If I were writing it, I'd have Ziusudra found the Library, and his wife found the Archive. Both of them taking different approaches to the same goal, of preserving humanity's wisdom.
It's all fan fic, of course, but I like it. ;D
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That would be a tale! Not sure that Jim would do it but I would read that fan fic! Which I admittedly am not a big fan of but that story sounds intriguing.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 10, 2021, 07:47:22 AM ---Maybe, but I don't think it would be too hard to justify from Eb's perspective.
Glad to know it's not just me not remembering things ;D
Ah, I misunderstood.
Too much friendly fire makes the most sense to me for not throwing it harder in big group fights with Harry around, and stuff like Shagnasty is too big a bite to even attempt without enough whampires there.
Huh, Grey is basically a good-guy version of Clayface. Probably not as strong as Raith (Thomas bends barbells). Whampire nature would nullify most poisons to knock him out for a kidnapping. Grey might be able to manage something since he's resourceful, but I don't see an obvious tactic with an acceptable success rate. Papa Raith should be most dangerous against a delicious meal.
I actually think Luccio may survive a while yet. She's gotten around the doom of being Harry's girlfriend. She's supportive of a softer take on the Laws while still understanding why they were codified in the first place. That being said, she is very killable.
Yeah, but I don't see Eb going down without a fight. He's not quietly retiring and handing his staff to someone he picks. Ramirez is gonna be at his side, then. Harry doesn't particularly want the staff, and it would keep him from a fight with Ramirez.
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We'll have to see about Eb I think. I would like more information regardless...hopefully something will come out of an AMA.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim was influenced by Clayface (although in my head it's a bit more like the Prototype game). Also, not sure you need to use poisons for a kidnap. Just render a being immobile. Chains, cuffs etc. A metal box that even a White Court vampire can't punch their way out of. Hell, if you keep them restrained enough with physical restrains they won't be able to even use that awesome strength. Lord Raith would be very dangerous against a meal...but also at his most vulnerable too I suspect.
Oh yeah, if Eb chooses it will be with his dying breaths. Not a formal sort of retirement at all. I don't know that Harry doesn't want the staff. And as we know, he is plenty prepared to fight Ramirez. He isn't trying hard to avoid it. I'm not saying Harry wants the Blackstaff. But if he thought it would go into the wrong hands i.e. the Council he might well take it for the greater good.
Ed0517:
I thought the Blackstaff chose it's own bearer? Heck, Eb wasn't even Senior Council yet. Maybe it takes the best combat mage, or the one with the most combat strength, and even Ramirez admits Harry is stronger. But I doubt Harry wants it. Morgan would have been a good call.
I am not sure Whampire charm will work on Grey. He's only half human. That skinwalker blood might walk right thru it. And I do think he'd take the deal if offered. He's a pro. He didn't even back down to Nick. Only to Uriel. backing down to Uriel doesn't prove you are weak, it just proves you are not a total moron.
Do we know how long House Raith has RUN the White court? Papa could have lost children in the fight for the throne. Or chosen not to have any until he solidified his hold on the throne. Maybe he didn't ascend until c. 1700.
I think a high caliber rifle takes Raith down. Browning designed the .50 BMG as antimateriel. As in shooting light armored trucks and later planes. Later adapted in Vietnam as a long range sniper. A head shot takes it off. Center of mass, hydrostatic shock purees the organs. A pro like Kincaid will center of mass it, no headshot. Muzzle energy roughly 30X a 9MM pistol.
I think Eb was convinced to step down. Possibly after learning of Raith's neutered status.
Hankthemoose:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 05, 2021, 08:02:46 PM ---The Accords wouldn't be broken per se, but killing a wizard of the White Council would give the WC an actionable grievance against the White Court (assuming it could be proven to a given standard blah blah). That kind of grievance can be settled sometimes with a weregild or higher stakes including war depending on the moods of the Accorded nations. My understanding with the WC-RC war was that both parties wronged each other, so other nations had an out to stay neutral.
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Pretty sure Maggie Sr. was not a WC member when she died. She was being hunted by the wardens.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 03, 2021, 09:08:10 PM ---The vampire leaders knew from Maggie Sr’s dinner argument. I’d be surprised if any senior council member was unaware except maybe Cristos tbh.
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It seems pretty obvious that Ancient Mai doesn't know from TC where she says that Harry was never really Eb's apprentice. To me, this strongly suggests that she thought Eb was acting out of loyalty to an apprentice, not family member.
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on August 07, 2021, 02:08:52 PM ---I'm really hoping Ziusudra is the founder and leader of the Librarians. I think he'd be perfect for it.
* He could be an amalgamation character in the Dresden files, and Harry could meet him and learn at the end that he's also known as Atrahasis, Utnapishtim, and Noah.
* He could have overseen the growth of the earliest empires, and the wonders they built, from the gardens of Babylon to the pyramids of Egypt to the lighthouse of Alexandria.
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I'm not a big fan of the "this guy was everywhere in history and responsible for all the things" trope. I'm fine with such a character being involved in a specific eternal quest, like spreading and preserving knowledge.
Lara: Where are we getting Lara's age from? The most direct thing I can recall about age it the portraits in Papa Raith's library, which isn't very direct. We're never told that he's done this for every child in his 2000 year history or that he started after a certain point in art history. The first portrait suggests the woman (Emilia Alexandria Salazar) is from the 16th or 17th century (15 or 1600's). I kinda doubt that's the first time Papa Raith had a child considering the history of birth control.
It's explicitly stated that she's the oldest, BR: Ch. 15 - "'Harry," Thomas said. 'This is my oldest sister, Lara.'" Lara has known, in her head, that Papa Raith doesn't love her for a century. (I didn't remember either. Had to look it up).
Lara says in BR that she's seen siblings challenge Papa Raith before, so they could have been the older siblings.
All that taken together makes me think Lara is was born no later than the 1600's. She could be older if Papa Raith didn't always do portraits. She could be younger if Salazar was an older, now deceased, sibling's mother. The only information about the frequency of the portraits is that no two are within 20 or 30 years of each other and they "steadily grow closer to the present day."
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on August 10, 2021, 12:04:41 AM ---I find it interesting though that White Court vampires don't often use it on powerful beings. None of them tried it on the Naagloshii, or on the Denarians, or the Fomor (the leaders, not the hybrid warriors). Seems like they don't just throw it around at everything. We've never even seen it tried on another vampire. Which makes me wonder if it's really only effective on mortals or other White Court vampires (and maybe some Faeries).
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Lea seemed concerned about Thomas. She wanted Susan's "love" or her memories of Harry. Then Thomas was burned by Lea. I don't think that's a coincidence. At best, it's a misdirection.
Also Bigfoot Irwin was enthralled, so we have reason to believe wamp powers work on bigfeet and extremely powerful fae.
Ramirez as eventual Merlin: I think we're going to have Harry as founder of a new, reformed council. Maybe leader for a short while, then he "retreats to the wilderness." Not sure what the wilderness would be in this day and age.
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on August 27, 2021, 05:45:51 AM ---A pro like Kincaid will center of mass it, no headshot.
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Kincaid explicitly takes headshots.
--- Quote ---If you’re shooting at someone, you’ve already decided to kill him. There’s no reason to shoot him anywhere other than the head, if you can. And I can.
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https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/microfiction-3-con-swap-and-virtual-signing
--- Quote from: Hankthemoose on September 18, 2021, 08:50:05 PM ---Pretty sure Maggie Sr. was not a WC member when she died. She was being hunted by the wardens.
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Morgan was a WC member when in TC.
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