The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What does this mean?
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 15, 2021, 08:19:23 AM ---Are emotions dangerous for a wizard? I distinctly remember Harry saying that emotions are fuel for magic, good and bad emotions. I don't think it's clear that all emotions are bad for magic.
--- End quote ---
They are fuel and motivation but the dangers of strong emotions are a recurring theme in the books, not just with Harry.
Sometimes your own emotions and sometimes emotions acquired with power like the bloodlust of a red court vampire or the violent emotions of the winter mantle. Free will is seen as something that can override these emotions.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 15, 2021, 08:18:07 AM ---I agree with pretty much all of this - except the separation between warlocks and wizards. Unfortunately there seems to be a direct negative effect associated with touching black magic (which is pretty much the same as Star Wars funnily enough). It's almost a form of radiation, it poisons and corrupts whatever it comes into contact with. I am not so sure a warlock can stop being a warlock after a while. They become tainted and mutated, corrupted. It's pretty directly drawn from Warhammer's concept of Chaos.
Yes and no. It's an oversimplification. Sociopaths and psychopaths experience plenty of rage, mania, sadness, even joy. They can experience pretty much the full range of human emotion. It's their processing of it that has issues. As I said, it's an extremely complicated and debated area. Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion on the terms as much of what people understand them to be is based on outdated terms and theories, or misunderstandings of the science.
But I do agree that Harry probably isn't either, yet. He could well become one.
Indeed, that's sometimes what makes diagnosis so tricky. And the diagnosis can be wrong which creates even more problems.
Harry does display some worrying psychological tendencies though, regardless. Which could be the result of his experiences affecting his psyche as well as possibly black magic warping him, or perhaps having a more-than-mortal nature (like being a starborn). We just don't know enough about it all yet. But we do know that Harry is one to worry about. He could well have killed Rudolph in that alley and he was out of control, as out of control as Ebenezar seemed too I might add (when they duelled in Peace Talks).
I'd argue he has gone Hulk more than a few times. The real question is what the ceiling is? How big and bad can Hulk-Harry get? What might he do then?
--- End quote ---
Sociopath and psychopath are about emotions connected with the human herd instinct especially morality and shame. Even if they feel it they don’t feel it as something they should act upon. I do not see that with Harry.
BrainFireBob:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 15, 2021, 08:18:07 AM ---I agree with pretty much all of this - except the separation between warlocks and wizards. Unfortunately there seems to be a direct negative effect associated with touching black magic (which is pretty much the same as Star Wars funnily enough). It's almost a form of radiation, it poisons and corrupts whatever it comes into contact with. I am not so sure a warlock can stop being a warlock after a while. They become tainted and mutated, corrupted. It's pretty directly drawn from Warhammer's concept of Chaos.
Yes and no. It's an oversimplification. Sociopaths and psychopaths experience plenty of rage, mania, sadness, even joy. They can experience pretty much the full range of human emotion. It's their processing of it that has issues. As I said, it's an extremely complicated and debated area. Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion on the terms as much of what people understand them to be is based on outdated terms and theories, or misunderstandings of the science.
But I do agree that Harry probably isn't either, yet. He could well become one.
Indeed, that's sometimes what makes diagnosis so tricky. And the diagnosis can be wrong which creates even more problems.
Harry does display some worrying psychological tendencies though, regardless. Which could be the result of his experiences affecting his psyche as well as possibly black magic warping him, or perhaps having a more-than-mortal nature (like being a starborn). We just don't know enough about it all yet. But we do know that Harry is one to worry about. He could well have killed Rudolph in that alley and he was out of control, as out of control as Ebenezar seemed too I might add (when they duelled in Peace Talks).
I'd argue he has gone Hulk more than a few times. The real question is what the ceiling is? How big and bad can Hulk-Harry get? What might he do then?
--- End quote ---
Re: Warlocks and wizards, I've long thought all magic has a "backlash"- or more accurately, each use of magic has the effect of changing your nature to make it easier to do that same thing again.
This would explain why old wizards become immune to mind tampering- they literally become set in their ways after centuries of such backlash.
As an analogy: Most magic creatures are "hard"- their nature is fixed, but their use of magic is easy, natural, and effortless. Humans have free will- this makes them comparatively "squishy", and they gradually work-harden by using magic. If that work hardening is a re-aligning of themselves to make it easier to repeat the feats, then magic "in harmony" with nature would increase their harmony with nature, and "unnatural" magic that abuses nature/magic (dark magic) would be like a stain, as described.
This would explain ability at magic growing over time, the mental fixity of older wizards, and warlocks. Harry's strength would be indicative of most people are mud, and he started as fairly rigid clay with lots of grit- harder to reshape period.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 15, 2021, 10:51:37 AM ---No, but as in life, too much emotion can be as harmful as too little.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough. Balance in all things.
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 15, 2021, 11:31:14 AM ---They are fuel and motivation but the dangers of strong emotions are a recurring theme in the books, not just with Harry.
Sometimes your own emotions and sometimes emotions acquired with power like the bloodlust of a red court vampire or the violent emotions of the winter mantle. Free will is seen as something that can override these emotions.
--- End quote ---
Without willpower, would emotions even matter? If you have no will you cannot act. Emotions are an effect on will but not the source. I agree, there is great danger with both too much and too little emotion.
--- Quote from: Arjan on July 15, 2021, 11:37:15 AM ---Sociopath and psychopath are about emotions connected with the human herd instinct especially morality and shame. Even if they feel it they don’t feel it as something they should act upon. I do not see that with Harry.
--- End quote ---
As I say, it's an intensely complicated subject. Whether psychopaths and/or sociopaths do or don't believe they should act in certain ways is still a point of contention amongst researchers. I don't have a definite answer on it because there is merit in arguments on both sides. I doubt we will come to any real conclusions anytime soon as research in this field tends to take a long time to show any meaningful results, and there are larger problems in how research is done in academia (but that's a whole other issue).
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on July 15, 2021, 02:57:35 PM ---Re: Warlocks and wizards, I've long thought all magic has a "backlash"- or more accurately, each use of magic has the effect of changing your nature to make it easier to do that same thing again.
This would explain why old wizards become immune to mind tampering- they literally become set in their ways after centuries of such backlash.
As an analogy: Most magic creatures are "hard"- their nature is fixed, but their use of magic is easy, natural, and effortless. Humans have free will- this makes them comparatively "squishy", and they gradually work-harden by using magic. If that work hardening is a re-aligning of themselves to make it easier to repeat the feats, then magic "in harmony" with nature would increase their harmony with nature, and "unnatural" magic that abuses nature/magic (dark magic) would be like a stain, as described.
This would explain ability at magic growing over time, the mental fixity of older wizards, and warlocks. Harry's strength would be indicative of most people are mud, and he started as fairly rigid clay with lots of grit- harder to reshape period.
--- End quote ---
Like a self-programming remote! The more you use it one way, the more it tries to be used that way.
I think you're pretty on the money with all that. Although surely even older wizards are not shielded totally from the side-effects of using black magic. But who knows?
It certainly makes sense in line with other WOJ about mutability etc. When asked about Grey, Jim spoke about how if Grey ate enough of Harry's magic it would make him pretty much Harry. He effectively forces himself to change. This is because Grey has Free Will. Whereas Naagloshii (being immortal) are immutable. They can eat Harry's magic and still be themselves. In fact, the words he says about Grey is "the more you become something other than you are, the less of you is left over". That might be basically what happens with black magic. You can choose to become a monster by committing monstrous acts, but then you no longer really are "you" - the being that you started off as.
Which begs the question - how do immortal "good" creatures go bad? Like Lucifer, or even the Naagloshii themselves? Something to do with Outsiders I'd bet.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I think you're pretty on the money with all that. Although surely even older wizards are not shielded totally from the side-effects of using black magic. But who knows?
--- End quote ---
Using black magic or having it used on them? As in what really happened to Justin? He had the rep of being a very good Warden when he retired, but then he went warlock.. He's been called that what he did to Elaine and tried to do to Harry were clearly warlock moves, so what corrupted him? Was it just a series of wrong choices and wrong answers?
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