What does this mean?

[Arjan]

I was not talking about going berserk and vendetta is what you get if a revenge cycle runs out of control. Just that revenge is a very basic human instinct. It has to be actively suppressed in society to get it under control.

And that control can slip. And Harry is not raised in medieval Iceland but he is continuously moving in such a world. It will influence him.

And wanting to kill the murderer of your lover is not exactly unnatural. It is just something we have mostly learned to suppress and now Harry is under strong influences not to suppress it. In the midst of a battle when a lot of brakes are less functional and people are in a highly emotional state anyway. And do not forget the mantle who really does not understand not killing Rudolph.

[Mira]

his isn't medieval Iceland and Harry wasn't raised there. And I don't think that every few books Harry is suppose to throw a temper tantrum and try to kill somebody. Here's what Harry says in Skin Game when he holds his temper in check.

No, nor was Harry's reaction premeditated, there is a difference you know?  There is also a huge difference between a temper tantrum and Harry's emotional reaction to Murphy's death given the total context that it happened in.  He'd been in fight or fight mode for several days leading up to the battle, he was working on little or no rest, plus pressure from all sides.  Harry wasn't under any such pressure in Skin Game to begin with, he knew that Murphy wasn't dead.  Interesting that Michael admits, himself, he'd have been really pissed.. And yeah, back in the Warrior, Michael was about to beat to death the guy who hurt and kidnapped his kid with a baseball bat.. Harry stopped him, understood and no one that I can recall was accusing Michael of being a cold blooded murderer because his impulse was to kill that guy in the most intimate of ways, beating him to death.. So temper tantrum or an angry distraught father reacting in a fairly normal way?

In Battle Ground he's defending Chicago. So he stops, goes nuts, assaults a friend, and tries to murder a fruitcake for being a fruitcake. That isn't a vendetta.  I don't know what it's suppose to represent, but it ain't that.

Assaulting a friend? No, not really, more like he wasn't going to allow anyone to stop him.. Not quite the same, and believe me, been there done that..  Sanya understood that, as did Butters, and they totally forgave him.  Harry wasn't being rational in that moment, his friends knew that, but trying to stop someone in that mode can be dangerous, his friends also knew that. 

I was not talking about going berserk and vendetta is what you get if a revenge cycle runs out of control. Just that revenge is a very basic human instinct. It has to be actively suppressed in society to get it under control.

And that control can slip. And Harry is not raised in medieval Iceland but he is continuously moving in such a world. It will influence him.

And wanting to kill the murderer of your lover is not exactly unnatural. It is just something we have mostly learned to suppress and now Harry is under strong influences not to suppress it. In the midst of a battle when a lot of brakes are less functional and people are in a highly emotional state anyway. And do not forget the mantle who really does not understand not killing Rudolph.

Exactly, and also note that neither Butters nor Sanya faulted Harry for going after Rudolph, but hit him with the logic that if he successfully killed him, he'd be out of the bigger more important fight. That was the logic they hit him with, that and that justice would take care of Rudolph and it wasn't Harry's place to dish it out.

[morriswalters]

@Mira
Jim telegraphs to you that Harry could be something called a destroyer.  He retcons Morgan to put across that message and it never occurs to you that there is a reason for these passages?
@Arjan
If my wife were murdered in front of my eyes I don't know that I could move much less contemplate murder.

[Arjan]

@Mira
Jim telegraphs to you that Harry could be something called a destroyer.  He retcons Morgan to put across that message and it never occurs to you that there is a reason for these passages?
@Arjan
If my wife were murdered in front of my eyes I don't know that I could move much less contemplate murder.

That is good. That means you are thouroughly civilised. I can not do it either I think but it used to be pretty normal.

[Mira]

@Mira
Jim telegraphs to you that Harry could be something called a destroyer.  He retcons Morgan to put across that message and it never occurs to you that there is a reason for these passages?
@Arjan
If my wife were murdered in front of my eyes I don't know that I could move much less contemplate murder.

I am sorry for your loss, but understand that everyone reacts to violence differently. You were severely shocked by such a horrible thing, you reacted in a normal way for you, that doesn't make the reaction Jim wrote for Harry, abnormal.  Myself I went through people much like Harry did to get to my dead son..  If I had to smack someone to do it, I would have, including my husband.  Call that assault if you want to, I know now all he wanted to do was spare me the sight, but I didn't want to be spared.

That is good. That means you are thouroughly civilised. I can not do it either I think but it used to be pretty normal.

I think it still is a normal reaction for some people.. When you witness that kind of horror, you react, it may mean that you are frozen in horror, you may scream, you may get very angry and try to get who did it, you may be silent and contemplate revenge, or all of the above, all are very human reactions, and normal for you.. There is no good or bad, that is something one also learns in the grieving process. 

Yes, Harry maybe called a destroyer but that doesn't always mean that it is a bad thing..  It is a harsh word, but if he is a destroyer of evil, is that bad? 

[The_Sibelis]

It's a Mandela effect, of what would have happened if harry hadn't overturned the spell on the Reds. It's based on
A. Harry is a direct descendant of the source of mortal wizardry
B. Children are magic, birthing and creation might actually be magical in and of itself. So perhaps part of that is left over. Like how they have extra stem cells. In fact, butters would probably say the one is directly correlated to the other..
C. Parallel alt realities and getting glimpses from them is definitely a thing. Isn't it now Woj the various Mabs can communicate if need be?

[Monkez]

It means that there was a very big disturbance in the force and anyone with any kind of midi-chlorian count felt it.   

[groinkick]

I wonder if the "dead children" represented many of the sacrifices the Red Court had done to fuel the spell.  Some of what peopled saw may have been what magic was used.  Dark, evil magic fueled with human sacrifice.

"The general theme was always the same: dead children  (The human sacrifices used to power the spell???). The world in flames. Terror and death spreading across the globe in an unstoppable wave, destroying anything resembling order or civilization (The Red Court being destroyed, and not being able to do anything about it?)"

[Mira]

I wonder if the "dead children" represented many of the sacrifices the Red Court had done to fuel the spell.  Some of what peopled saw may have been what magic was used.  Dark, evil magic fueled with human sacrifice.

"The general theme was always the same: dead children  (The human sacrifices used to power the spell???). The world in flames. Terror and death spreading across the globe in an unstoppable wave, destroying anything resembling order or civilization (The Red Court being destroyed, and not being able to do anything about it?)"

Or a vision of what will be if he doesn't get his act together to defend the world when Nemesis and the Outsiders set up for their final battle.

[morriswalters]

Just for the record Mira, my wife is alive and bearing up well.

The symbology in the story is pretty obvious.  Harry said he and his spawn would watch the world burn and roast marshmallows.  This is Harry the sociopath, prepared to do anything to preserve his child.  Make any bargain, commit any act, break any promise. I was just curious if there were anything else to be taken from this.

@groinkick
I don't remember any special thing about the Reds and children.

[Mira]

Just for the record Mira, my wife is alive and bearing up well.

The symbology in the story is pretty obvious.  Harry said he and his spawn would watch the world burn and roast marshmallows.  This is Harry the sociopath, prepared to do anything to preserve his child.  Make any bargain, commit any act, break any promise. I was just curious if there were anything else to be taken from this.

@groinkick
I don't remember any special thing about the Reds and children.

Glad of that Morris, so shocking to see "wife murdered before my eyes," I missed the "if" part.
Harry isn't a sociopath..
The definition of sociopath according to Websters;

a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Lord knows Harry has lots of problems but lack of a conscience isn't one of them.  Willing to do anything to save his child doesn't make him one.  I think most parents would answer in much the same way.

[Arjan]

Just for the record Mira, my wife is alive and bearing up well.

The symbology in the story is pretty obvious.  Harry said he and his spawn would watch the world burn and roast marshmallows.  This is Harry the sociopath, prepared to do anything to preserve his child.  Make any bargain, commit any act, break any promise. I was just curious if there were anything else to be taken from this.

@groinkick
I don't remember any special thing about the Reds and children.

A sociopath would not go to such lengths to save his daughter. A sociopath would not break his back to save an old lady either. Harry is just a bag of conflicting emotions like most people.

[morriswalters]

I'm pretty comfortable with having used that term.  When he's angry he lacks empathy or restraint.  Jim hit you over the head with that in Battle Ground in the passage where Harry see's what Rudolph see's.

[Mira]

I'm pretty comfortable with having used that term.  When he's angry he lacks empathy or restraint.  Jim hit you over the head with that in Battle Ground in the passage where Harry see's what Rudolph see's.

But his lack of empathy isn't consistent nor is his lack of restraint..  He has a temper, when one is pissed it is hard to feel empathy or be restrained, that doesn't make him a sociopath..  In Battle Ground he also feels immediate regret for going after Rudolph and for hurting Sanya and Butters in the process, a sociopath wouldn't feel regret, nor would he care about the pain the people of Chicago are feeling or try to do something about that.  Jim also made that quite clear.

And as Arjan points out...

A sociopath would not go to such lengths to save his daughter. A sociopath would not break his back to save an old lady either. Harry is just a bag of conflicting emotions like most people.

Marcone is closer to what a sociopath is, that is what Harry saw back in their soul gaze and it frightened him.

[morriswalters]

If not something like this, what is it that you think the destroyer will do?  And why are people so afraid of the thing? Why does Jim keep writing these freakouts, where the only way to stop Harry is to hurt him?  He did this as early as Grave Peril.  Had Lea not been there the three of them would have died. 

The fury in me grew. It swelled and burned and I reached out to the fires again. Flames flew out, caught one of the more cowardly of the vampires, huddled at the back, scrabbling to slip his flesh mask back over his squashed bat face. The fire touched him and then twined about him, searing and blackening his skin, then dragging him back, winding and rolling him toward the blaze.

The magic danced in my eyes, my head, my chest, flying wild and out of control. I couldn’t follow everything that happened. More vampires got too close to the flames, and began screaming. Tendrils of fire rose up from the ground and began to slither over the courtyard like serpents. Everything exploded into motion, shadows flashing through the brightness, seeking escape, screaming.

I felt my heart clench in my chest and stop beating. I swayed on my feet, gasping. Michael got to me, Lydia slung over his shoulder in a fireman’s carry. He’d torn his cloak off, and it lay to one side, burning. He dragged my arm across his shoulder, and half carried me down the stairs.

Smoke gathered on us, thick and choking. I coughed and retched, helpless. The magic coursed through me, slower now, a trickle—not because the floodgates had closed, but because I had nothing left to pour out. I hurt. Fire spread out from my heart, my arms and legs clenching and twitching. I couldn’t get a breath, couldn’t think, and I knew, somewhere amidst all that pain, that I was about to die.