The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Marcone could probably beat Harry in a duel.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2021, 04:22:25 AM ---I mean, I'm a fan of time traveling Harry doing it
--- End quote ---
Maybe he did.... Or maybe he was the one who showed up and stopped it.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 18, 2021, 05:38:20 PM ---Marcone didn't like the odds in Battle Ground and declined and it cost him the Eye and his castle.
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Well I don't think he realized his castle was up for grabs at that point. It did cost him the Eye but I don't think it had to do with the odds against Harry on his own. Harry did have the Spear of destiny with him, and it may be on par with or more powerful than one of the Swords. If Harry had been without it, who knows. That being said Marcone did say that he had a more longer term perspective. Perhaps it has to do with Harry the Starborn. Maybe he knows Harry is going to be needed, or see's him as a tool for later, or that ticking off Mab wasn't worth the trouble.
--- Quote from: vincentric on June 18, 2021, 02:35:49 PM ---Marcone/Namshiel have no real shot at defeating Harry in a duel at present.
While he has shown some advanced defensive magics, he has not demonstrated a single offensive ability beyond enchanting single-shot muskets. Unless he's got a lot more hidden away, Harry can laugh at his attacks behind his shield and wear him down.
--- End quote ---
That's because Marcone keeps his abilities close to the vest, he doesn't boast. He's had the Coin for years and just now showed his cards because he had to. He didn't use offensive abilities because they wouldn't have been effective against a Titan, and would have been a waste of time and energy.
We know that Fallen can throw around Hellfire, a devastating, destructive force. At the very least Marcone has that. Also he broke down concrete at the molecular level. What do you think he could do to a human body?
"I noted, somewhere in the academic vaults of my head, that magic like that was like unbaking a damned cake back into its original components" "Ramirez was good. Better than me, on a technical level, by a considerable margin" - Harry
"I just broke down the molecular structure of concrete and then chemically re-formed it inside a mold of pure will" - Marcone
One could argue that Marcone not only is capable of what Ramirez did, but by re-forming it is beyond Carlos's abilities. Carlos broke down the molecular structure, we haven't seen him reform something on that level. Destroying is easier than creating.
--- Quote ---That's not to say he won't become a magical threat. It just makes more sense for him to learn defensive magic first and rely on his army of troubleshooters for offense. Once he feels he can adequately defend against one or two Wardens, he start learning offense so he can be more self-sufficient. He only revealed what he had because Ethniu was an unexpected situation and the battle was at the desperate last stand there on the beach.
--- End quote ---
Displayed in some of the short stories, Marcone has been preparing for a showdown with Dresden for many years. His special bullets were created by Gard (maybe he does them now I don't know). He had come up with strategies to defeat Harry like using explosives to wear him down, a sprinkler system to dampen his magic, and the special bullets to go through his shield to kill him... Now he has a Coin, and has shown to be a very capable magic user. I find it highly unlikely he hasn't been learning offensive magic. He's shown to be at an expert level with some magic already. Harry has said that fire magic is easy, and one of the first things a wizard learns. Marcone at the very least could probably burn Harry to a crisp.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2021, 10:37:25 PM ---Makes you wonder about the convo between Marcone and Namshiel at that point.
M: Can we take him?
N: Most likely. But he did wipe the floor with my previous host who had years more experience than you.
M: Not today then.
--- End quote ---
He kind of stomped Dresden. Dresden without knowing how used a Soulfire hand to smash him but had been getting beat pretty badly before that. Later on he was also beating Dresden but Michael chopped off his head, and hand.
"The Denarian ate the force spell Dresden threw at him. Then Thorned conjured a smoky prison from black threads he spewed from his mouth landing all around Dresden. The prison-spell shatters Dresden's shield and blocks all of his magic. Some unknown power creates a silver hand construct for Dresden, floating away from him and reflecting his movements. It breaks the prison and thrashes Thorny through several walls and glass ripping him to shreds, but not killing him"
"He throws green threads of light at Dresden, one of which wraps around Dresden's neck, choking him. Michael lops off his head, then cuts off his hand with the Denarian Coin in it"
forumghost:
Harry is genuinely the worst Wizard in the entire series, it's not really a surprise that he loses to people like Carlos or Namshiel, who have actually heard the phrase "fight smarter not harder" before.
Like, when Harry takes on that team of Fomor Sorcerers in BG he talks about how they're basically loser scrubs that can make big booms but have no skill and real Wizard's laugh at them and I'm just like "Harry, how's about you put the stones down and just enjoy the view from that glass house of yours, m'kay"
groinkick:
--- Quote from: forumghost on June 19, 2021, 05:32:28 AM ---Harry is genuinely the worst Wizard in the entire series, it's not really a surprise that he loses to people like Carlos or Namshiel, who have actually heard the phrase "fight smarter not harder" before.
Like, when Harry takes on that team of Fomor Sorcerers in BG he talks about how they're basically loser scrubs that can make big booms but have no skill and real Wizard's laugh at them and I'm just like "Harry, how's about you put the stones down and just enjoy the view from that glass house of yours, m'kay"
--- End quote ---
I both agree, and disagree. With book examples (and head cannon) Harry's talent in magic falls into three main categories:
1. Combat magic: Least technical, relies on his formidable raw power. Hits really really hard but technical wizards can see it coming, defend, and counter.
2. Non combat magic: Harry is a wizard, capable of all forms of magic. If he sets his mind to it, and has time, he can pull off really impressive magic. It requires time, and effort, so not effective in a pinch.
3. Crafting magical items (blasting rod, rings, bracelet ect). Jim has said that Harry is Senior Council level at constructing this stuff. So he has a rare talent for it, think Lucio and how nobody can craft enchanted swords like her. So this is a legit magical talent, and Harry is expert level.
So yeah Harry is limited in some ways, but an expert in others. Give him time to prepare, and he can pull of some incredible stuff. In combat there are wizards who can beat him, but very few could actually take Harry's best shot. They need to avoid direct combat with him because he hits so hard that they aren't likely to survive his first pyro blast (if he wants blood).
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 18, 2021, 05:38:20 PM ---Marcone didn't like the odds in Battle Ground and declined and it cost him the Eye and his castle.
--- End quote ---
I mean if you're going to try and take Harry straight-up, something that'll let you survive the death curse is pretty much mandatory, the likeliest outcome of trying for it there was a mutual kill.
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 19, 2021, 06:23:11 AM ---I both agree, and disagree. With book examples (and head cannon) Harry's talent in magic falls into three main categories:
1. Combat magic: Least technical, relies on his formidable raw power. Hits really really hard but technical wizards can see it coming, defend, and counter.
2. Non combat magic: Harry is a wizard, capable of all forms of magic. If he sets his mind to it, and has time, he can pull off really impressive magic. It requires time, and effort, so not effective in a pinch.
3. Crafting magical items (blasting rod, rings, bracelet ect). Jim has said that Harry is Senior Council level at constructing this stuff. So he has a rare talent for it, think Lucio and how nobody can craft enchanted swords like her. So this is a legit magical talent, and Harry is expert level.
So yeah Harry is limited in some ways, but an expert in others. Give him time to prepare, and he can pull of some incredible stuff. In combat there are wizards who can beat him, but very few could actually take Harry's best shot. They need to avoid direct combat with him because he hits so hard that they aren't likely to survive his first pyro blast (if he wants blood).
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: forumghost on June 19, 2021, 05:32:28 AM ---Harry is genuinely the worst Wizard in the entire series, it's not really a surprise that he loses to people like Carlos or Namshiel, who have actually heard the phrase "fight smarter not harder" before.
Like, when Harry takes on that team of Fomor Sorcerers in BG he talks about how they're basically loser scrubs that can make big booms but have no skill and real Wizard's laugh at them and I'm just like "Harry, how's about you put the stones down and just enjoy the view from that glass house of yours, m'kay"
--- End quote ---
Of two minds about this, on one hand yeah he is kind of bad at magic but it's getting a bit exaggerated just how incompetent he is at times. But on the other hand he definitely isn't senior council level considering Ebenezar is running around with a staff blast that's at least 1000x as strong and better coat equivalent and he's not the senior council's enchanting specialist, he's top of the line for his generation when it comes to making things but still can't hold a candle to the older wizards in skill.
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