Author Topic: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......  (Read 9053 times)

Offline K.L.O.E.

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2021, 02:20:48 PM »
Apparently the Blackstaff cannot ward off that kind of attack, Eb did end up in surgery at the end of Battlefield.  However it might protect the wielder of the Eye from it's hate, just as it protects it's wielder from black magic.

That was mostly a physical beatdown though. I don't necessarily think old man Eb could tank it using the Blackstaff but a prime Ivey might be able to do it (being knowledge made manifest similar to Mab being Logic)
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Offline Arjan

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2021, 02:56:51 PM »
I think it requires a lot of hate to wield it or you develop a lot of hate as a side effect.
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Offline Mira

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2021, 03:07:36 PM »
That was mostly a physical beatdown though. I don't necessarily think old man Eb could tank it using the Blackstaff but a prime Ivey might be able to do it (being knowledge made manifest similar to Mab being Logic)

But that was my point, the Black Staff protects from some things, but not everything.  One can still be injured or I imagine, even killed while wielding it.

Offline bigdangmoose

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2021, 08:41:14 PM »
Nahh, we aren't going to see a mech. We will see a conjuritis created Godzilla. And King Kong.

Ok, maybe we will see a mech, as in classic Mecha Godzilla created the same way.
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Offline vincentric

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2021, 10:56:13 PM »
Well. if Harry is allowed a one time exemption for necromancy, he can always go get Siriothrax's corpse. And have Einerjhar Murphy as his drummer.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2021, 10:55:31 PM »
Apparently the Blackstaff cannot ward off that kind of attack, Eb did end up in surgery at the end of Battlefield.  However it might protect the wielder of the Eye from it's hate, just as it protects it's wielder from black magic.
That's fair. I think he was in surgery because of the roundhouse kick that Ethniu gave him. He did survive Gungnir's attack, which I thought was quite impressive. But I do agree I think a shot from the Eye might have been too much.

I don't think the Blackstaff can tank a direct hit from the eye without someone incredibly logical holding it. My point was more referring to the hate radiation it would give off were Harry to try and use the eye. I don't know how else Harry would be able to use it, though maybe Harry has it to take it off the field as he's the one person you can trust not to use it.

I wonder if Balor really didn't like the Outsiders for some reason or if he was corrupted and that's why the Twyleth Teg (?) had to take him down.

And if Jim is putting in Kaiju we are absolutely getting a Mecha of some form.
My reading of how Mab survived (and it's mostly just me speculating here) is that whatever Mab's defensive spell(s) were, it at least partially allowed her to redirect the energy somewhere else. Obviously not all of it as she still got fried. But she literally worked out the math of how much energy would be fired at her and how much she would need to block/redirect in order for her body not to be destroyed, and then figured out an appropriate defence. She didn't need to just have faith her shield would work, or just hope that it would do the trick, she literally had worked it out and held onto that reasoning. Which is how her logic overcame irrational hate and rage. If Ethniu had been a bit more logical, she might have guessed Mab would prepare such a counter. In fact, she probably should have just kicked her again. Clearly in physical combat she had no equal on the field. And I'd say in sorcerous might (perhaps not skill) and raw connection to magic, she also was unequalled. She might have actually killed Mab if she had just fought her physically or with her own magic. I mean, she even had proof Mab was vulnerable to that because of how well her kick worked in Peace Talks. Instead she opted for maximum carnage, as Mab likely guessed she would, and Mab had a very excellent counter for it. As Marcone pointed out, Ethniu's predictability is what made her vulnerable.

I agree, he might not be "tainted" by the hate in that sense. His soul might be less affected. Or his mind for that matter. But the hate was given form in a sort of heat energy that generally destroyed everything it touched. I don't think even the Blackstaff would save you from that.

The only way I can see Harry being able to use the Eye would be as a big battery for a spell. I doubt he will ever just be able to point it like a gun at anyone. Could help him in a fight against Demonreach though if they have a falling out. I agree though that Harry mostly just wants to remove it from the field, and Marcone let him because he doesn't want that weapon in the hands of enemies that could use it like Ethniu, but also probably will use it as part of a case to undermine Dresden and say "Dresden is the bad guy, not me" while pointing Harry's worst enemies in his direction.

As for Balor, I don't think he hates Outsiders. What's your theory there? My guess is he actually is connected to the Outsiders, he is somehow on their team. Maybe they even helped him with his Eye. Assuming that the Outsiders are not merely the forgotten/fallen gods etc. (which sometimes I think might be true, and sometimes I think it's probably not). Balor might well have been corrupted...but then again the Fomor in Irish mythology/legend were always pretty much the bad guys. They might have just started out as evil.

I suspect the Mecha will be human (not Wizard) created and controlled should they appear, but we'll see.

Offline K.L.O.E.

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2021, 12:49:25 PM »
Well. if Harry is allowed a one time exemption for necromancy, he can always go get Siriothrax's corpse. And have Einerjhar Murphy as his drummer.

I hope we get this during the BAT.

That's fair. I think he was in surgery because of the roundhouse kick that Ethniu gave him. He did survive Gungnir's attack, which I thought was quite impressive. But I do agree I think a shot from the Eye might have been too much.
My reading of how Mab survived (and it's mostly just me speculating here) is that whatever Mab's defensive spell(s) were, it at least partially allowed her to redirect the energy somewhere else. Obviously not all of it as she still got fried. But she literally worked out the math of how much energy would be fired at her and how much she would need to block/redirect in order for her body not to be destroyed, and then figured out an appropriate defence. She didn't need to just have faith her shield would work, or just hope that it would do the trick, she literally had worked it out and held onto that reasoning. Which is how her logic overcame irrational hate and rage. If Ethniu had been a bit more logical, she might have guessed Mab would prepare such a counter. In fact, she probably should have just kicked her again. Clearly in physical combat she had no equal on the field. And I'd say in sorcerous might (perhaps not skill) and raw connection to magic, she also was unequalled. She might have actually killed Mab if she had just fought her physically or with her own magic. I mean, she even had proof Mab was vulnerable to that because of how well her kick worked in Peace Talks. Instead she opted for maximum carnage, as Mab likely guessed she would, and Mab had a very excellent counter for it. As Marcone pointed out, Ethniu's predictability is what made her vulnerable.

I agree, he might not be "tainted" by the hate in that sense. His soul might be less affected. Or his mind for that matter. But the hate was given form in a sort of heat energy that generally destroyed everything it touched. I don't think even the Blackstaff would save you from that.

The only way I can see Harry being able to use the Eye would be as a big battery for a spell. I doubt he will ever just be able to point it like a gun at anyone. Could help him in a fight against Demonreach though if they have a falling out. I agree though that Harry mostly just wants to remove it from the field, and Marcone let him because he doesn't want that weapon in the hands of enemies that could use it like Ethniu, but also probably will use it as part of a case to undermine Dresden and say "Dresden is the bad guy, not me" while pointing Harry's worst enemies in his direction.

As for Balor, I don't think he hates Outsiders. What's your theory there? My guess is he actually is connected to the Outsiders, he is somehow on their team. Maybe they even helped him with his Eye. Assuming that the Outsiders are not merely the forgotten/fallen gods etc. (which sometimes I think might be true, and sometimes I think it's probably not). Balor might well have been corrupted...but then again the Fomor in Irish mythology/legend were always pretty much the bad guys. They might have just started out as evil.

I suspect the Mecha will be human (not Wizard) created and controlled should they appear, but we'll see.

I was mistaken, I thought Balor was a half decent guy. I had him and his grandson mixed up.

All of Peace Talks and Battle Ground happened because Nemesis wanted to attack Demonreach. The tactical and strategic errors the Fomor made only make sense when you look at it from that lens. If they'd launched a surprise attack on Chicago with Ethniu, the Jotuns, and the Huntsman it's over in a few hours.

As for Mab tanking the Eye: Magic is built on belief. If you don't think your shields can hold they won't. So while Mab ran the numbers she also needed to believe she could do it. Anyone less logical than her and maybe Ivy would likely breakdown mentally under the strain of resisting the eye.
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Offline Mira

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2021, 01:26:59 PM »
Quote
All of Peace Talks and Battle Ground happened because Nemesis wanted to attack Demonreach. The tactical and strategic errors the Fomor made only make sense when you look at it from that lens. If they'd launched a surprise attack on Chicago with Ethniu, the Jotuns, and the Huntsman it's over in a few hours.

Yes, it should have been over in a few hours, the reason it wasn't perhaps. was poor leadership. Yes, the Fomor had supposedly the ultimate weapon, the Eye, but their generals sucked.  Even Listen, supposedly a star born is playing a very minor part, and he was fooled by Molly.  I don't minimize the importance of taking out Harry's child and Molly's family, but still couldn't his talents have been better used?  The Ethinu, herself, was totally out maneuvered and fooled, that is why she lost the Eye and was defeated.  And it just wasn't Mab who calculated how much she could take from the Eye, she had a lot of help from Vadderung/Odin who allowed himself to be "humiliated" so his spear could get into position to do the most damage, Lara, with her team who delivered the blow that dislodged the Eye from her head, the Holy Knights running interference and doing crippling damage with great risk to themselves, and yes, in the end, what ever his long term motives are, Marcone/Namshiel aiding Harry to get what he needed to finally put Ethinu away. 

One has to ask, just was Drakul's and Mavra's real goals in all of this?  Who's side are they on? Are they working with Nemesis towards a greater goal?  Or mere opportunists taking advantage of a chaotic situation?  But then what is their goal?  Their targeting of the Wardens was no accident, was the whole thing preplanned to gain new powerful recruits for the coming BAT?  Did they know that Chandler would never be an undead team player so he was sent to another dimension?  Or do they have long term plans for him?  Plans we will learn about in Mirror Mirror, that is when he will make his return, that is the only thing that makes any sense in that story line. 

Offline Arjan

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2021, 03:37:09 PM »
I think the black court is mainly opportunistic and they don’t like taking risks. They saw the whole affair as an excellent opportunity to get something but they did not stay longer than necessary. I don’t think they were in there to help the fomor.
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Offline Mira

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2021, 03:58:41 PM »
I think the black court is mainly opportunistic and they don’t like taking risks. They saw the whole affair as an excellent opportunity to get something but they did not stay longer than necessary. I don’t think they were in there to help the fomor.

I agree with that, it is also a misdirect to introduce a new character, Drakul, and set things up for a future confrontation between Wardens, i.e. mainly Carlos and his former friends.. And I still think to hook up Harry with Chandler as a future ally..

Offline Arjan

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2021, 04:38:07 PM »
I agree with that, it is also a misdirect to introduce a new character, Drakul, and set things up for a future confrontation between Wardens, i.e. mainly Carlos and his former friends.. And I still think to hook up Harry with Chandler as a future ally..
Maybe Chandler did something completely forbidden to escape like short period time travel. It seems to be his speciality.
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Offline Mira

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2021, 05:14:23 PM »
Maybe Chandler did something completely forbidden to escape like short period time travel. It seems to be his speciality.

Perhaps, I still stand by the idea of this is the purpose for Jim writing Mirror Mirror..  Harry either gets to rescue Chandler or Chandler, Harry, between them they will also answer a lot of questions about inside politics on the Senior Council.  I further predict that Chandler turning up with Harry will totally unhinge Carlos for a bit, he won't know who to believe or what to believe in.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: The Blackstaff picks his successor.......
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2021, 01:46:56 PM »
I hope we get this during the BAT.

I was mistaken, I thought Balor was a half decent guy. I had him and his grandson mixed up.

All of Peace Talks and Battle Ground happened because Nemesis wanted to attack Demonreach. The tactical and strategic errors the Fomor made only make sense when you look at it from that lens. If they'd launched a surprise attack on Chicago with Ethniu, the Jotuns, and the Huntsman it's over in a few hours.

As for Mab tanking the Eye: Magic is built on belief. If you don't think your shields can hold they won't. So while Mab ran the numbers she also needed to believe she could do it. Anyone less logical than her and maybe Ivy would likely breakdown mentally under the strain of resisting the eye.
Yes agreed, it's hard to see how else the Fomor were so tactically unimaginative.

I think it's probably a combination of a few things when it came to how Mab survived. Harry guesses she made all sorts of terrible deals to survive something like that. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if she actually knew that was in her future and prepared accordingly. Logic and faith are opposites though, so the yes she had to believe in her logic but she couldn't just believe her shields were going to hold. She had to know they were strong enough.