The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Why didn't Drakul kill.....
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on February 01, 2021, 05:01:42 AM ---There's no need to make someone sift through broken links like that.
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eh, fair enough, I'd forgotten about that. Though you found it quick enough lol. Really though, saying there's no proof because they haven't seen it...
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on February 01, 2021, 05:01:42 AM ---There's no need to make someone sift through broken links like that.
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I appreciate the sentiment and the help you have given, but it isn't that hard to look up WOJ. And that one is quite an easy one to find regardless, and it's a fairly well-known one. While it's good to help I don't know that we as a community should encourage laziness and wilful ignorance either. Not that I think you meant to do that either it's merely a possibility created by this situation.
--- Quote from: b4utoo on February 01, 2021, 03:50:57 AM ---Oh so no proof...gotcha!
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I don't know whether you were joking or not but either way I think it's probably best not to subvert the thread all that much. If it was an attempt at humour fair enough, sometimes things don't translate well via writing and not everyone's sense of humour is the same but let's move on and stick to the topic. But if you were deliberately just trying to tease another member of the community whilst also subverting the thread and ignoring established WOJ just because you haven't done your homework - you might just want to reconsider your position. This board is for everyone and humour doesn't always carry well (particularly sarcasm) over the web. Whatever your intentions it might be time to get back on topic and come prepared for good-natured thoughtful and at least semi-researched discussion. I'll leave it at that.
--- Quote from: Avernite on February 01, 2021, 07:02:59 AM ---Much as this WoJ is clear, the actual canonical text seems to say that it's no longer valid. Ferrovax is very clearly on a different level than Drakul, and Drakul doesn't seem much stronger than a Lord of Outer Night or two.
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I get your point but implication and inference via action aren't quite the same as exposition on the part of the author. I don't remember in the series anywhere it actually says Drakul could take Mab, or even Ferro or almost any of the others bar Titania and the Mothers. And you are right this is an old list. It didn't include Ethniu or Angels or Archangels etc. But just because Drakul isn't necessarily as strong in raw power as Ferrovax doesn't mean he isn't stronger than Mab, or strong enough to kill her. Depending on how Drakul's powers work he might be suited perfectly to taking out Immortals like Mab. Perhaps it's more about critical power, or out-thinking his enemies (although this list is just about who has the horsepower - so clearly he has at least that). Drakul seemed far more dangerous than any of the Lord's of the Outer Night. Harry says he feels stronger than the lot of them, and Drakul seems more dangerous than the Red King. Morgan had the Red King - and he isn't nearly as dangerous as Ebenezar was, and Eb was both afraid and respected the danger of Drakul. But nowhere does it recently outline that Drakul isn't strong enough, so it isn't yet canon that he can't. In fact, the only canon we have on the whole thing is the list itself so that's what we should stick to.
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on February 01, 2021, 02:29:41 AM ---Naaaa, see. Your forgetting Jim's a DnD player. This was the BBEG making a show of things and batting the A team around to show you that he can. He monologues the whole fight basically. He clearly scoffs at the evil overlords list and does what he wants. Plus as Jim has said recently, he's a hit n run kinda guy, he didn't want to get caught up in a stand up fight for too long. Who knows what kinda reinforcements might show up?
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Not at all, I consider him as a D&D player/DM all the time! But I suspect you are right. Just because the scene didn't quite work when I read it (and clearly for a few others too), doesn't mean that Jim wasn't trying to show how badass Drakul is. I think you might be bang on about he was just playing with them, it occurred to me the other day in another thread. Yeah the hit n run aspect is intriguing. Perhaps he is just smarter than most villains and doesn't get thrown off schedule by petty fights when the real victory is so much more worth it. But as Marcone would put it, that probably means he isn't so sure of his strength as to just wipe out even relatively minor threats. In fact, I suspect this answers why he didn't use his Will attack. Perhaps, like Vadderung and other such beings, he doesn't rely on such a thing unless he has to. The Lord's of the Outer Night went immediately to their super move and showed their hand. More powerful and dangerous beings seem to keep an ace up their sleeve and use other tactics to defeat their enemies, even enjoy the sport of combat. That's far scarier to watch in some ways. Drakul only went for his Will when he encountered Harry and I doubt it was to do with Harry's danger as a combatant. I suspect it was more to do with Harry being another Starborn and whatever else he may be, and because Drakul (like a few other villains) seems to want to test out Dresden. There is almost a long game around testing Dresden but what it's meant to lead to is unclear. He Who Walks Behind, Cowl, Justin, Drakul...there is definitely a pattern somewhere.
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on February 01, 2021, 12:43:03 PM ---I appreciate the sentiment and the help you have given, but it isn't that hard to look up WOJ. And that one is quite an easy one to find regardless, and it's a fairly well-known one. While it's good to help I don't know that we as a community should encourage laziness and wilful ignorance either. Not that I think you meant to do that either it's merely a possibility created by this situation.
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It's kind of annoying for half of them since you have to copypaste the link to a new tab and remove the /bb/ along with swapping the jimbutcher for paranet since otherwise you just get booted to the front page of jim-butcher.com
Mira:
--- Quote from: groinkick on January 31, 2021, 06:37:19 PM ---Listens to Wind, and River shoulders? I know that they are pretty powerful but Drakul could stand up to Mab (per words of Jim), and I don't see them being near her level of power. Mavra said he was having fun.... But he, and the Black Court were there to collect (or consume) wizards. They took some of them for that purpose. So I can't help but wonder why Drakul would allow LTW or River Shoulders to get out alive...
So do you think Drakul allowed them to live, or were those two strong enough to get out alive on their own? I just don't see how if Drakul is as powerful as Jim said they could have survived.
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I think it is complicated, Drakul is very strong, but so are River Shoulders and LTW, I think there is an element of luck involved also for lack of a better name. LTW said if you can fight Drakul to a draw, that is a win. The element of luck here was Harry's conjuritis, team White Council plus River Shoulders was well on their way to losing until Harry started sneezing and anvils began to fall out of the sky. It was really Mavra that set it up to be a total no win for the team, ignore her and walk away, a huge zombie army of the undead rise up, if they fight especially with the addition of Drakul's muscle, heavy loses will result. Killing LTW and River might have been a couple of cherries on top of the general shit pile, but the point had been made and Team Black Court gained at least two powerful wizards.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 01, 2021, 03:28:19 PM ---I think it is complicated, Drakul is very strong, but so are River Shoulders and LTW,
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That's the thing. By comparison they are not. Raw horsepower (as Jim said) it would take every wizard on the planet to stand up to Mab while Drakul can by himself. So as powerful as LTW is, he's nothing, nothing in comparison to Drakul.
The only thing I could come up with is that Drakul is less effective against some forms of magic, and LTW is good enough to exploit it. Just as River shoulders was able to stop him from teleporting.
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