Author Topic: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground  (Read 3666 times)

Offline Yuillegan

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Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« on: December 20, 2020, 05:33:11 AM »
It occurs to me that Denarians never appear alone in the Dresden Files, except for Lash with Harry.

Marcone is the only one we openly see operating, but Nicodemus is mentioned. However several other candidates exist.

In Peace Talks, Ebenezar is unusually angry - to the point where he might have killed Harry had Harry not fooled him into attacking a body double. When he appears just after Ethniu's grand entrance at the docks where Harry is attempting to smuggle Thomas to the island, Ebenezar's staff is described as glowing with a sullen red-orange energy.

This sounds very familiar to when Harry is using Hellfire and being influenced by Lash. His staff glows the same and his rages are more intense and blinding than normal.

Could there be other players? We know from Skin Game the being doesn't have to be totally mortal (that is, human). But perhaps there are others moving around in the shadows sowing discord.

Any ideas? And what do we think about Ebenezer having a Coin?
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Offline Mira

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 07:05:44 AM »

  I doubt that Eb would take up a coin.  I doubt that there would be much temptation there for him.
No, in his case I think it is a matter more of possible dementia or just losing control because his
grandson can be so stubborn.  Either one is terrifying when one has so much power to begin with.

Offline deadvoid

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2020, 02:49:34 AM »
In Peace Talks, Ebenezar is unusually angry - to the point where he might have killed Harry had Harry not fooled him into attacking a body double.
It's not improbable that he's actually much more high tempered than readers perceived.

People assumed that he's sort of a wise wizard type of person from West/MW America, rural Gandalf with a quick temper so to speak, and that his daughter ran away from him because of him pushing her too hard (note that term too hard here doesn't really say anything since there's no basis on what's the standard norm & what qualifies as hard) and since her personality is too wild, naturally she chose to fled instead of listening & complying to him. Then also his treatment to Harry in the series so far had been mostly genial & almost like with a child glove's still on, the guilt of keeping familial secret & fallout with his mother was in effect most probably.

But he's the Enforcer of the highest order in White Council. It's not a job any normal people, wizard or vanilla, would even consider. WoJ is it's something he achieved by going through an enormous amount of fights with so many types of opponents & survived. That means it requires enormous amount of stubbornness & withstanding enormous amount of stress, as well as living with his extraordinary enemies that people on average don't acquire, which led to higher ceiling of emotional temperament. What he considers as offended, angry, or furious aren't at the same level as normal people or wizards, and certainly not fantasy book readers.
We just haven't been told how bad it is actually when he's really furious, how he acts when he's in that state in front of Harry as our lens, or how often that can happen. We heard through Harry about impacts of his actions or when he's in battle, but we've only starting to witness his fury when he taking matters as personal wrongdoings in PT.

Offline Mira

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 04:01:57 AM »
Quote
We just haven't been told how bad it is actually when he's really furious, how he acts when he's in that state in front of Harry as our lens, or how often that can happen. We heard through Harry about impacts of his actions or when he's in battle, but we've only starting to witness his fury when he taking matters as personal wrongdoings in PT.

Good enforcers don't lose it though.  Eb, as Blackstaff is supposed to carry out justice, not punishment.  He was simply too emotionally involved to be rational as far as Harry is concerned.  It led to anger and almost ended tragically.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 04:07:09 AM »
It's not improbable that he's actually much more high tempered than readers perceived.

People assumed that he's sort of a wise wizard type of person from West/MW America, rural Gandalf with a quick temper so to speak, and that his daughter ran away from him because of him pushing her too hard (note that term too hard here doesn't really say anything since there's no basis on what's the standard norm & what qualifies as hard) and since her personality is too wild, naturally she chose to fled instead of listening & complying to him. Then also his treatment to Harry in the series so far had been mostly genial & almost like with a child glove's still on, the guilt of keeping familial secret & fallout with his mother was in effect most probably.

But he's the Enforcer of the highest order in White Council. It's not a job any normal people, wizard or vanilla, would even consider. WoJ is it's something he achieved by going through an enormous amount of fights with so many types of opponents & survived. That means it requires enormous amount of stubbornness & withstanding enormous amount of stress, as well as living with his extraordinary enemies that people on average don't acquire, which led to higher ceiling of emotional temperament. What he considers as offended, angry, or furious aren't at the same level as normal people or wizards, and certainly not fantasy book readers.
We just haven't been told how bad it is actually when he's really furious, how he acts when he's in that state in front of Harry as our lens, or how often that can happen. We heard through Harry about impacts of his actions or when he's in battle, but we've only starting to witness his fury when he taking matters as personal wrongdoings in PT.
The important thing to note is that even before Peace Talks began he's been under fairly constant stress for years with things getting worse as it heads towards apocalypse time. It was why he jumped so much when Maggie surprised him, Eb came into Peace Talks 90% of the way to boiling point.
Good enforcers don't lose it though.  Eb, as Blackstaff is supposed to carry out justice, not punishment. He was simply too emotionally involved to be rational as far as Harry is concerned.  It led to anger and almost ended tragically.
He's the black ops guy not their paladin, he's racked up more of an innocent bodycount than most wars.
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Offline vincentric

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 05:22:42 AM »
Remember, this is the man who crashed a satellite on an inhabited compound in South America because Duke Ortega tried to kill Harry. I don't think he has much in the way of restraint once things gets real.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 05:38:12 AM »
Remember, this is the man who crashed a satellite on an inhabited compound in South America because Duke Ortega tried to kill Harry. I don't think he has much in the way of restraint once things gets real.
Eh, Casaverde wasn't exactly an unrestrained move (the fact that he was readying the satellite before the duel even happened on the other hand...).

Quote
"Like at Casaverde," I said. "You hit Ortega's stronghold when he escaped our duel."

"Yes," he said, still remote. "Ortega killed more of the White Council than any enemy in our history during the attack at Archangel." His voice faltered for a moment. "He killed Simon. My friend. Then he came here and tried to kill you, Hoss. And he was coming back here to finish the job as soon as he recovered. So I hit Casaverde. Killed him and almost two hundred of his personal retainers. And I killed nearly a hundred people there in the house with them. Servants. Followers. Food."
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Offline Mira

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 12:18:41 PM »
The important thing to note is that even before Peace Talks began he's been under fairly constant stress for years with things getting worse as it heads towards apocalypse time. It was why he jumped so much when Maggie surprised him, Eb came into Peace Talks 90% of the way to boiling point.He's the black ops guy not their paladin, he's racked up more of an innocent bodycount than most wars.

Even so, it is done calmly, not in anger, anger makes him careless.  Yes, for Eb to be 90% to the boiling point, says fear for Harry makes him crazy, not a coin,

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2020, 09:23:42 AM »
Eb's never had much restraint in the series. He mouths off to multiple Senior Council members the first time we see him. In Changes, he mutes Harry for disagreeing with him and demands obedience.

Offline deadvoid

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2020, 09:28:56 AM »
I think Eb's still a cowboy at heart

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2020, 09:41:09 AM »
I think Eb's still a cowboy at heart
He's grown a lot from his youth where he'd start fights out of boredom at least.
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Offline deadvoid

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Re: Other Denarians in Peace Talks and Battle Ground
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2020, 10:08:24 AM »
He's grown a lot from his youth where he'd start fights out of boredom at least.
True but the cowboy essence of "you cross me & i'll kill you" never went away