Author Topic: New Dresden Files podcast interview.  (Read 24016 times)

Offline Arjan

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2020, 11:37:52 PM »
But faeries are different, their deals are stricter and by the letter.
Sure but what letters? If anything is open for interpretation Mab will abuse it.

The relation between the queens and the knight is subject to winter law. Harry does not have the natural understanding of winter law the rest of fairy has. He does not know what Mab's obligations to him are, he did not knew about christmas presents for example.
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Offline Dina

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2020, 11:40:42 PM »
Yes, he does not know, but that is not an excuse for Mab to break a deal. So, it can happen, even without Harry realizing it until later.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2020, 04:57:25 PM »
Yes, but remember what Harry did in BG. He bounded Molly because he said that he has done more than what his office demanded him. Harry did not realize it yet but one day he will do Mab a favor (without being ordered to) so important, that she will have to awknowledge it. And at that point, the deal will be finished and Harry's will be free of fae influence.
The deal wasn't for Harry to do Mab three favors. It was for him to fulfill three requests. If Jim is paying attention to what he said in SK, an order is not a request and neither is an unrequested favor.

The deal that started with a debt to Lea may well be finished that way but his oath as Winter Knight isn't part of that deal.
Quote
When you have fulfilled three requests, your obligation to me ceases.
Obligation is only defined by context. We've been warned that context doesn't matter when dealing with the Sidhe. I'm not saying that it will go down this way. I'm saying that if Mab makes a request of Harry, then by the rules laid out in the books, his obligation to Mab ceases. Whatever obligation Harry has to her.

Any future Bargains would be on their own terms. Like, if someone owes you $20 and you say "You pay for lunch next time and we're square", and then they borrow another $5000 for a car lone 6 years down the track, they can't just finally buy you that Pizza and be like "So, we're good on that 5k right?"
There's a reason contracts say that they supersede any previous agreements. Also, Jim has said that Harry still owes Mab the last request. The deal is still valid. The question isn't if the deal is still in place. It is what does "obligation to Mab" mean. Being Winter Knight is all about obligations to Mab. (Also the other two Queens).

Offline Dina

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2020, 08:34:32 PM »
I may be wrong, but I think Mab said "obligations with faeries". I understand she can't talk about Summer but I think she is talking about all Winter.
The deal wasn't for Harry to do Mab three favors. It was for him to fulfill three requests. If Jim is paying attention to what he said in SK, an order is not a request and neither is an unrequested favor.
Really? I thought it said "favors".
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Offline bigdangmoose

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2020, 09:46:33 PM »
Anybody catch Mike's book review interview? I watched that and I caught a couple thoughts that I found interesting. I start off by throwing this out there.

Jim thinks of Mab as a villain - Sounds like he doesn't share the same ideas about her that some readers do that she's really a good guy doing bad things to keep reality safe.

The wedding may not happen - In TM we will follow Harry over the year, seeing his dates with Lara, but if they really make it down the aisle sounds like it's up in the air.

And, because I do like the Harry/Molly pairing, I'm putting this in. Someone asked about a relationship between Harry and Molly. Jim sounded like he wants people to realize that it very well may happen, just right now isn't a good thing or time for it to happen.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2020, 10:07:33 PM »
She said "When you have fulfilled three requests, your obligation to me ceases."

This is at least the third time I've supplied the quote in this thread. It illustrates three things: 1. Mab has "requests" owed to her, not "favors." 2. It's his "obligation" that ceases. And three, the obligation is to Mab.

Favors can be done without being requested. If Harry owed Mab a favor, Harry could get out of his obligation to Mab without her initiating anything.

I think it's important that the obligation isn't specifically defined when combined with Harry's warning in Changes right before Harry's fellowship leave Chicago about not relying or trusting context when dealing with the Sidhe.
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Another thing that is important is that if Harry's obligation to Mab ceases, as Winter Knight, he still would have obligations to Mother Winter and the Winter Lady. So if it doesn't free him of the Winter Mantle, then I expect Mab would kill him so that she can have a Winter Knight. It could be that having no obligations to the Queen would mean that the Mantle would leave him.

I really don't think Mab is going to make a request of Harry while he still has the Mantle.

The wedding may not happen - In TM we will follow Harry over the year, seeing his dates with Lara, but if they really make it down the aisle sounds like it's up in the air.

And, because I do like the Harry/Molly pairing, I'm putting this in. Someone asked about a relationship between Harry and Molly. Jim sounded like he wants people to realize that it very well may happen, just right now isn't a good thing or time for it to happen.
I really felt like this was just an "I'm not going to tell you" type of answer. He seems to have retired the sing song phrase. I think Jim knows the answers to these questions, but they would be pretty major spoilers. Of course he isn't going to answer them.

I was disappointed in Mike's interview as a source of new information. Too many questions that have been asked and answered. We got the writing assignment origin story, the died at his type writer like a man story, that Zelazny Amber Chronicle's were an influence, where he could go with the Alera world, next Cinder Spires book, next Dresden book, the number of books, he doesn't drink beer, and the Alera bet story. I might be missing a couple more. At least he didn't ask where Bob came from.

Most of the stuff we got out of this was more about Jim than anything he's written.

One new piece is to the writing assignment story. He said he used B5 in class discussions a lot, and his professor suggested writing a story like Buffy and/or B5. B5 being an influence on Jim isn't at all surprising to me. We knew he liked it. I've referenced it more than once as something that might tell us how Jim's writing this.

Was this the one where he asked if we'd see Elaine again, and Jim's response was something like "oh, definitely"? I'm pretty sure we all would have predicted that one.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2020, 10:09:16 PM »
Anybody catch Mike's book review interview? I watched that and I caught a couple thoughts that I found interesting. I start off by throwing this out there.

Jim thinks of Mab as a villain - Sounds like he doesn't share the same ideas about her that some readers do that she's really a good guy doing bad things to keep reality safe.

The wedding may not happen - In TM we will follow Harry over the year, seeing his dates with Lara, but if they really make it down the aisle sounds like it's up in the air.

And, because I do like the Harry/Molly pairing, I'm putting this in. Someone asked about a relationship between Harry and Molly. Jim sounded like he wants people to realize that it very well may happen, just right now isn't a good thing or time for it to happen.
It's easier to remember she's awful when you're also keeping track of what's going on in her head and what she's doing offscreen after all.
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Offline Mira

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2020, 10:11:54 PM »
Quote
She said "When you have fulfilled three requests, your obligation to me ceases."

Wasn't that before he became her Knight through?  Also she sort of kept moving the goal posts as to what she was asking of him.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2020, 10:18:29 PM »
Wasn't that before he became her Knight through?
Yeah. So?

Offline Dina

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2020, 10:39:13 PM »
Bad Alias, you are right, it was requests and no favors. The part I was thinking was this.
"Free of Sidhe influence, of the bonds of your obligation first to the LeananSidhe and now to me.”

(I had not realized the chapter in question was on JB site. It's easy to check.
https://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/summer-knight/sk-chapter-3)

Edited: I just thought something. Imagine the WC sends Eb on Harry. They fight, but of course Eb won't kill him, so he is half-assed and Dresden wins by taking the blackstaff from him. So, he took it to Demonreach. Mab is forced to make a request for it. Bingo.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 02:25:19 AM by Dina »
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Offline vincentric

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2020, 02:42:22 PM »
She doesn't have to make a request of it though.

She could simply say, "My Knight, your next task shall be a simple one. Retrieve the Blackstaff and give it to me now that it is no longer in the possession of one of your loved ones."

Offline Mira

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2020, 06:14:41 PM »
Yeah. So?

So one of the things Harry was hoping to avoid was becoming her Knight.  Just when he thought he paid her in full, she moved the goal posts again to keep him on the hook so eventually he'd agree to be her Knight.  So since he did agree, you haven't heard her mention the favors that he owes her, do you?

Offline Dina

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #102 on: December 19, 2020, 07:03:43 PM »
She doesn't have to make a request of it though.

She could simply say, "My Knight, your next task shall be a simple one. Retrieve the Blackstaff and give it to me now that it is no longer in the possession of one of your loved ones."

I don't think so. She cannot ask Harry to give her anything in Demonreach, or at least that is what I understood. Mab can task her knight but cannot rob him.
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Offline vincentric

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #103 on: December 19, 2020, 09:26:03 PM »
I don't think so. She cannot ask Harry to give her anything in Demonreach, or at least that is what I understood. Mab can task her knight but cannot rob him.

Harry can take anything he chooses from Demonreach and free any prisoner. He is the Warden with a capital D.

His only conditions on becoming Winter Knight was for the power he received, time to rescue Maggie before taking up his duties and never to be forced to raise a hand against his loved ones. Anything else Mab asks of him falls within his duties.

The thing about the Blackstaff is, she wouldn't want it for herself. If she ordered Harry to get it, it'd be so he could use it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 09:28:29 PM by vincentric »

Offline Arjan

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Re: New Dresden Files podcast interview.
« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2020, 09:33:05 PM »
Harry can take anything he chooses from Demonreach and free any prisoner. He is the Warden with a capital D.

His only conditions on becoming Winter Knight was for the power he received, time to rescue Maggie before taking up his duties and never to be forced to raise a hand against his loved ones. Anything else Mab asks of him falls within his duties.
We don't know that. Harry has an official function at the winter court and is Mab's vassal. I am sure the rules are skewed in Mab's favor but there are rules and they both have to follow them. That is why she brought Harry's daughter a christmas present after all.
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