The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
A thought About Butters
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on November 28, 2020, 06:33:03 PM ---Butters greatest strength is having Jim love him too much and you know it.
--- End quote ---
I've always loved Butters, the guy who faced the Titan is the same guy who hung in there and rapped out what Harry needed to keep Sue going in Dead Beat.
BrainFireBob:
--- Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on November 26, 2020, 04:37:34 PM ---Both Aragorn and Denethor house were descendants of Luthien and elven princess Idril Celebrindal through Elros.
Yes house of stewards married more among non-Numenoreans, still Denethor was probably second after Aragorn in amount of old Numenorean power. He was able to fight for palantir in will-duel with Sauron and win, this is not something common mortal could do.
Nevertheless this pure race aspect is less important in terms of real royalty as most kings married foreign princesses anyway
--- End quote ---
Cite, please. The Stewards were not of the royal line.
BrainFireBob:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 26, 2020, 03:42:34 PM ---If I remember also Denethor's line, though Numenorean, had become watered down over the centuries so their life spans were closer to normal humans. Also it is repeated often in The Lord of the Rings that Aragorn is descended from the line of Luthien Tinuviel the elf princess who gave up her mortality for a mortal, Beren, "her line will never fail.." So female descent was critical.
--- End quote ---
What?
Elros and Elrond are the descendents of Luthien. That's where the Numenorean kings came from.
Saying "the line of Luthien" is the same as saying "line of kings of Numenor"
Arjan:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on November 29, 2020, 12:07:12 AM ---Cite, please. The Stewards were not of the royal line.
--- End quote ---
Not the direct line sure. No inheritance claim strong enough to claim the throne. But if you go for the everyone has some king somewhere in his ancestry reasoning then it is almost inevitable. The royal line has to intermarry somewhere and the higher nobility were the only real candidates.
Mira:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on November 29, 2020, 12:09:57 AM ---What?
Elros and Elrond are the descendents of Luthien. That's where the Numenorean kings came from.
Saying "the line of Luthien" is the same as saying "line of kings of Numenor"
--- End quote ---
Yes, but the line of the Kings of Gondor became diluted over time by marriage to normal people. So not so direct, and over time though they still lived a bit longer than ordinary humans, they were diminished. Marriages among the men of the North that Aragorn came from, did not and though there were way fewer of them, they kept many of the characteristics of original men of Numenor.
It gets complicated, Tolkien mapped out extensive family trees, and when Legolas said "the line of Luthien would never fail," it was Aragorn's line he was talking about and not the Stewards of Gondor.
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