The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
"Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
toodeep:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on November 18, 2020, 07:00:15 PM ---If the senior council needed to know and it was safe to tell them, they would know, because Rashid would have told them. Rashid hides what he is from the Council, because he would be subject to attack away from the gates if it was revealed who and what he is.
--- End quote ---
To some degree I agree with this, but remember Nemesis knows who Rashid is, so all of his real enemies, the people who would want to kill him for being the gatekeeper already want to, whether the council talks about the Gates or not. I think the council doesn't talk about it because the less information about outsiders the better in terms of most wizards - i.e. if they don't even know about them they can't mess with them. But that is all falling apart as the Outsiders are obviously becoming extremely active about wanting in, and we've seen that three different Walkers are active inside reality now. The time for keeping things secret passed several books ago. The entire idea that you shouldn't talk about nemesis because it might hear you is kinda bunk, because that's assuming that it doesn't know that the faerie queens and great powers know what it is and oppose it. Look at how wrong things went because Lily was never brought up to speed about it from a trustworthy source? I can't help but wonder how Nemesis would fare against a knight of the cross, i.e. can they detect a Nemesis infection? If Butters saw Justine at the end there, would she have had a big glowing exclamation point (or whatever the enemy has to his senses) over her head? Can the sword free someone from Nemesis infection?
toodeep:
--- Quote from: Mira link=topic=53912.msg2339416#msg2339416 ---That is true, oh I think Harry still has some support, Eb, Listens to Wind, and Rashid.. But when the vote came down two were in surgery and the third occupied with keeping the Gates safe. Unsure how deep Martha's support runs without Eb being present, but she has to know the service Harry performed during the battle. I am also not all that certain that Christos is so much against Harry now, but I'd say it was either him or Carlos who testified against Harry. However it still all could be a sham, because if they believed it, there would be no suspended death sentence.. It would be simple, death by Blackstaff.
--- End quote ---
I think it is quite possible that Eb did not support him in the recent vote. Interestingly enough, it sure looked like the vote came after the events in Chicago (since Carlos had time to go, and then come back days later to report the results) rather than simultaneously, so it is possible Harry could have gone and defended himself if he hadn't been so smashed to bits by the fighting.
Eb warned Harry about how people would be betraying him, and Harry gave Eb all kinds of reason to be angry with him in PT. So I suspect Eb was on the "kick em out" train as a way of giving "tough love" to try to bring Harry back. It might be interesting to see who was in Harry's camp. I think LtW was (because he respects River Shoulders and River Shoulders certainly trusts Harry). I wonder if Mai might be if she has done anything to follow up on the fact that he has a foo dog ally. While the Merlin has never liked Harry, I could see Harry's help in the case against Morgan bearing fruit eventually, though probably not here. (i.e. I suspect if the Merlin had want it shot down it would have been shot down). Heck, depending on how allied with Winter he is, even the Gatekeeper might have voted against Harry under the idea that he needed to be freed of the Council restrictions to be of more help to Mab. I think we'll learn more about this vote later....
Though the idea that Carlos seems to blame all the deaths in Chicago on Harry just boggles my mind. In what world could he have prevented the attack of an entire nation of evil beings the Council had essentially been at war with for several years? And then when he actually did stop the big bad... they throw him out and Carlos agrees with it? That is just ridiculous.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: toodeep on November 18, 2020, 07:42:00 PM ---I think it is quite possible that Eb did not support him in the recent vote. Interestingly enough, it sure looked like the vote came after the events in Chicago (since Carlos had time to go, and then come back days later to report the results) rather than simultaneously, so it is possible Harry could have gone and defended himself if he hadn't been so smashed to bits by the fighting.
Eb warned Harry about how people would be betraying him, and Harry gave Eb all kinds of reason to be angry with him in PT. So I suspect Eb was on the "kick em out" train as a way of giving "tough love" to try to bring Harry back. It might be interesting to see who was in Harry's camp.
--- End quote ---
IIRC according to Carlos the vote was unanimous, but was also held while Eb and LTW were in Hospital.
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on November 18, 2020, 07:52:59 PM ---IIRC according to Carlos the vote was unanimous, but was also held while Eb and LTW were in Hospital.
--- End quote ---
Not just in the hospital, in surgery, so unless they both had locals, no communication from either of them.
--- Quote ---Though the idea that Carlos seems to blame all the deaths in Chicago on Harry just boggles my mind. In what world could he have prevented the attack of an entire nation of evil beings the Council had essentially been at war with for several years? And then when he actually did stop the big bad... they throw him out and Carlos agrees with it? That is just ridiculous.
--- End quote ---
Mine also, but it just underscores the fact that Carlos isn't thinking straight. It is almost as if he is being mind controlled.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Dina on November 17, 2020, 05:13:24 PM ---Yes, I don't think Carlos is evil or that he is BC, but he can be a)nemfected (I hope not. I really don't like the "everyone is infected" trope). b)manipulated. I think at some point he will realize that b) is right and something will happen to make him a believer again. Remember, Butters began like that and now is like the stepping stone of the Dresden Church :)
--- End quote ---
Nemfection is credible in his case though, or a mind-whammy from the black council.
He's got grounds for some hurt feelings about the Molly incident and the lack of contact from Harry since Changes, but he's not previously been a stupid character. If he thinks two active and one retired KOTC are friendly with a monster and he hasn't been subjected to some sort of influence to cause that, frankly Jim has handed the character the idiot ball.
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