The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 30, 2020, 10:02:38 PM ---But the surviving gods and men will repopulate a beautiful new world.
--- End quote ---
My understanding has always been that the Einherjaren would all die during Ragnarok. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 31, 2020, 09:39:06 PM ---My understanding has always been that the Einherjaren would all die during Ragnarok. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.
--- End quote ---
Well then, they can die a second time and ascend together up to Heaven on the back of Mouse...
Wicked Woodpecker of West:
--- Quote ---They don't get to comeback to earth as Einherjar soldiers until their memory is lost to everyone who knew them. So if Harry lived another 400 years and out lived every other mortal in the story who knew Murphy, not until at least 400 years and a day have passed.
--- End quote ---
Now that's of course if Harry will remain mortal - I think immortals memories doesn't count in this regard, otherwise damn Murphy is more screwed than any Einherjar soldier ever ;)
--- Quote ---That is one interpretation. The other is that Murphy’s soul is exactly were it should be and this is what’s next for her. She will be raised again every time she dies and feast again. She chose for that when she decided to fight and die as a Viking warrior and maybe Vadderung had negotiated with Uriel about her.
--- End quote ---
That seems hardly a matter. I mean Einhernjar soldiers and Odin are doomed. Ragnarok coming always in their perspective.
Immortal does not mean eternal.
Not to mention - Valhalla and Odin, are not really this kind of warrior attitude Murphy showed in live. She was stubborn protector, a cop, a guardian. They are berserkers loving war for war itself, chosen for no other moral virtue but combat valor - so I mean there are really really shitty guys in Valhalla - and they live again (remember they are called mortal warriors - even if they are ressurected they are still well humans fundamentally) to train for oncoming Ragnarok. Like Odin sell their services to Marcone. How well do you think Murphy would react to be sold to some cyberpunk fae Marcone in 2277, huh?
--- Quote ---Just like other souls end up in Hades. Not that many anymore but they do. I do not get the impression that hades is a limited stay so why would walhalla be one? Is this Christian exceptionalism?
--- End quote ---
It sort of is. Pagan gods are beings of multiple level of magnitude beneath Uriel and his brothers.
Most of them were sacked by Creator according to WOJ and forbidden to interfere with both mortal and Nevernever affairs. More are rambling around as immortal rock-stars and wrestlers, Odin choose mortality so he can keep being involved and then he gain it again, because well he was powerful wizard with God's knowledge so he knew well how to do it again, and took a risk, Hades is basically locked in his Underworld and unable to do much.
Another thing is - whether spirits coming to Hades were even real souls or more like spirits.
Those we met in Underworld were more like shades, than whatever Dresden was as a walking soul.
--- Quote ---She would have made a great Knight of the Cross.
--- End quote ---
Murphy proved very well - she would be shitty Knight of the Cross.
Her INDEPENDENCE SYNDROM stopped her from being effective tool of Divine Providence (at least effective willing tool - as her failures were still used in a way to make Sword of Faith stronger) - and that's what knight is. Maybe not a saint, maybe not a believer, but he puts his fate in hands of providence to be guided, where he's needed. And Murphy rejected that. She rejected playing by God's rules.
Ironically she ended up - probably against her will - as Odin's soldier to be rented to some Marcone 2.0. (or maybe even Marcone 1.0 as he may not count as mortal anymore) in far future :P
--- Quote ---It was a story choice. If Murphy didn't get anything it was because Jim didn't want her to as a character. And this is true for every female character in the story. It's a shame really.
--- End quote ---
Well yes, but also her stance about Swords is absolutely consistent with her character as shown by multiple books.
Otherwise those books can be just whatever bonanza with zero consistence.
--- Quote ---You knew at the outset when they had sex that she was doomed. I would guess Mab is as well.
--- End quote ---
TBH I get more "she's going to do vibe" - when Dresden get too moral to seal the deal before. XD
--- Quote ---It could have well been written another way. She could have went to heaven. Which given her Catholicism would seemed to have been a better choice. Or she could have joined the Librarians in DC. He wanted her dead and out of the way for this arc with Lara.
--- End quote ---
Considering all her live and especially stance for swords, her Catholicism seems to me as lil more than Irish cultural thing and convinient excuse to avoid unwanted valkyrie's sexual advances.
Also consider this - heaven is permanent. You never come back.
It's afterlife by capital A. and capital FTERLIFE.
But pagan gods and their domains are not eternal in this world - and Valhalla is especially like holding a big green neon sign saying NOT PERMANENT. It's doomed. Odin is doomed. Einhernjaren is doomed.
I mean let's say - what are the chances Big Apocalyptic Triology shall not include Ragnarok. I count them about 0,66%.
Which also means Murphy is in quite good place to fight in BAT as revenant supersoldier.
--- Quote ---But the surviving gods and men will repopulate a beautiful new world. It is not just about destruction, it is also about rebirth.
--- End quote ---
Well but that does not counts Odin or Einhenjaren - those are goners.
And considering all other Nordic Gods were sacked from their jobs by THE CREATOR according to WOJ, I think well they can help repopulate by breedings scions on Earth, because that's about as far as they can go I guess XD
--- Quote ---The real apocalypse was something people were looking forward to. It says something about how happy they were.
--- End quote ---
The Christian Apocalypse - yes, but it's term used rather more popculturally in Dresden Files - neither of apocalyptic scenarios here is like Second Coming - more like Outsiders Invasion of reality.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on November 04, 2020, 01:08:03 PM ---Now that's of course if Harry will remain mortal - I think immortals memories doesn't count in this regard, otherwise damn Murphy is more screwed than any Einherjar soldier ever ;)
That seems hardly a matter. I mean Einhernjar soldiers and Odin are doomed. Ragnarok coming always in their perspective.
Immortal does not mean eternal.
Not to mention - Valhalla and Odin, are not really this kind of warrior attitude Murphy showed in live. She was stubborn protector, a cop, a guardian. They are berserkers loving war for war itself, chosen for no other moral virtue but combat valor - so I mean there are really really shitty guys in Valhalla - and they live again (remember they are called mortal warriors - even if they are ressurected they are still well humans fundamentally) to train for oncoming Ragnarok. Like Odin sell their services to Marcone. How well do you think Murphy would react to be sold to some cyberpunk fae Marcone in 2277, huh?
It sort of is. Pagan gods are beings of multiple level of magnitude beneath Uriel and his brothers.
Most of them were sacked by Creator according to WOJ and forbidden to interfere with both mortal and Nevernever affairs. More are rambling around as immortal rock-stars and wrestlers, Odin choose mortality so he can keep being involved and then he gain it again, because well he was powerful wizard with God's knowledge so he knew well how to do it again, and took a risk, Hades is basically locked in his Underworld and unable to do much.
Another thing is - whether spirits coming to Hades were even real souls or more like spirits.
Those we met in Underworld were more like shades, than whatever Dresden was as a walking soul.
Murphy proved very well - she would be shitty Knight of the Cross.
Her INDEPENDENCE SYNDROM stopped her from being effective tool of Divine Providence (at least effective willing tool - as her failures were still used in a way to make Sword of Faith stronger) - and that's what knight is. Maybe not a saint, maybe not a believer, but he puts his fate in hands of providence to be guided, where he's needed. And Murphy rejected that. She rejected playing by God's rules.
Ironically she ended up - probably against her will - as Odin's soldier to be rented to some Marcone 2.0. (or maybe even Marcone 1.0 as he may not count as mortal anymore) in far future :P
Well yes, but also her stance about Swords is absolutely consistent with her character as shown by multiple books.
Otherwise those books can be just whatever bonanza with zero consistence.
TBH I get more "she's going to do vibe" - when Dresden get too moral to seal the deal before. XD
Considering all her live and especially stance for swords, her Catholicism seems to me as lil more than Irish cultural thing and convinient excuse to avoid unwanted valkyrie's sexual advances.
Also consider this - heaven is permanent. You never come back.
It's afterlife by capital A. and capital FTERLIFE.
But pagan gods and their domains are not eternal in this world - and Valhalla is especially like holding a big green neon sign saying NOT PERMANENT. It's doomed. Odin is doomed. Einhernjaren is doomed.
I mean let's say - what are the chances Big Apocalyptic Triology shall not include Ragnarok. I count them about 0,66%.
Which also means Murphy is in quite good place to fight in BAT as revenant supersoldier.
Well but that does not counts Odin or Einhenjaren - those are goners.
And considering all other Nordic Gods were sacked from their jobs by THE CREATOR according to WOJ, I think well they can help repopulate by breedings scions on Earth, because that's about as far as they can go I guess XD
The Christian Apocalypse - yes, but it's term used rather more popculturally in Dresden Files - neither of apocalyptic scenarios here is like Second Coming - more like Outsiders Invasion of reality.
--- End quote ---
That is actually a point. The apocalypse in the dresdenverse is the outsider apocalypse and if that one succeeds it is the end of this reality. So it won’t happen because our hero will make sure it does not happen this time.
This reality is meantime continue.
And Murphy will play her part in this as well. She wanted to be involved, now she is. Nobody will take that away from her. I think she will be quite happy with her afterlife. She is not the playing harp on a cloud type.
So no last judgement in the dresdenverse. Murphy will battle and party forever.
Mira:
--- Quote ---So no last judgement in the dresdenverse. Murphy will battle and party forever.
--- End quote ---
I think she still could be nailed in the end... However while she might like the fighting, I don't remember her as much of a party girl.
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