The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Question regarding a WOJ about "Changes". -I dont see what Harry did wrong.

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Arjan:

--- Quote from: Shift8 on October 05, 2020, 11:29:46 PM ---Uh no, that's why its called asking. Its a question you know.

--- End quote ---
If I ask you to murder someone and you do it they will lock me up too. And rightly so.

--- Quote ---
Um...so where is the crime here exactly? Whats wrong with asking her to kill him? And yes being adult is enough. An adult is an entirely independent entity. And we have been over this, the mentor/apprentice situation is either Molly's or the WC's fault. Arguing Dresden is a slave to this situation is a total non-starter.

--- End quote ---
It made Molly a fugitive hunted by the council. He was basically asking her to kill herself in the process but he did not explain that to her. He speculated that eb or listens would help.

--- Quote ---A con man? What? Molly understood the risks well enough. And to boot, a person does not have a moral responsibility to give out information to their own detriment. It is one thing to tell you it is safe to walk through a curtain behind which is a cliff, and another to sell you an overpriced TV without explaining to you that you could get a better deal. The former is wrong, the latter entirely justified.

--- End quote ---
It was the cliff situation. He did not tell the council would hunt her.

And I would not say the second thing is morally right. Especially when you have a master pupil relationship with all kinds of moral responsibilities.

And the next step from selling someone an overpriced tv is selling him a mortgage he can not handle. These acts may be legal but the damage done is bigger than if you just broke into his house and took that overpriced tv.

Morally you are more evil than that burglar. You can get into hell without breaking any laws.

Shift8:

--- Quote from: Arjan on October 05, 2020, 11:44:15 PM ---If I ask you to murder someone and you do it they will lock me up too. And rightly so. It made Molly a fugitive hunted by the council. He was basically asking her to kill herself in the process but he did not explain that to her. He speculated that eb or listens would help.It was the cliff situation. He did not tell the council would hunt her.

And I would not say the second thing is morally right. Especially when you have a master pupil relationship with all kinds of moral responsibilities.

And the next step from selling someone an overpriced tv is selling him a mortgage he can not handle. These acts may be legal but the damage done is bigger than if you just broke into his house and took that overpriced tv.

Morally you are more evil than that burglar. You can get into hell without breaking any laws.

--- End quote ---

-Oh come on. The difference there is obvious. If you ask someone to murder someone it is equivalent to doing the murder yourself because you are asking for something that is not justified for the person (or for you) to do. Asking Molly to take risks and kill Harry is perfectly justifiable. It is Harry's life, so he can ask someone to end it if he pleases, especially since he was doing it to prevent his being used by Mab.

-So what. Molly knew back when she was tried the first time that there would be severe consequences if she was found out again. Second, its not clear that she was necessarily going to be caught. Third, its not the cliff situation because her death was not certain. Clearly, as she is still alive. Dresden didn't deprive her of her ability to defend herself or hide from the WC. Fourth, Molly's situation was beyond Dresden's control and he is not responsible for what the WC does to her. Fifth, she was going to be up a creek without a paddle anyhow since Dresden was going to be the winter knight if she didnt kill him or wipe his memories.

Maybe I am forgetting something, but I would love to know how the WC was supposed to know that Molly was responsible for wipe his memories. Could have been anyone, including Harry. Hell, how did they know Dresden had his memories wiped after making the deal with Mab?

-I am perfectly within my rights to sell you a mortgage you cannot handle so long as you know the details of the mortgage. Its hardly my responsibility to stop someone from being an idiot. I, not anyone else, was born into this world with a responsibility to stop idiots from being idiots.

-There is no such thing as hell. And if there were, it would be more morally reprehensible than anything discussed here.

Shift8:
Also Molly did know, as of way back in proven guilty:

“Yeah,” I said. “You have a couple of choices to make, Molly. Starting with whether or not you want to turn yourself in to the Council.”
She rocked back and forth, a nervous motion. “Why would I?”
“Because they’re going to find you, sooner or later. If that happens, if they think you’re trying to avoid them, they’ll probably kill you out of hand. But if you’re willing to cooperate and face up to what you’ve done, and if someone intercedes on your behalf, the Council might withhold a death sentence.”

“The first time you screw up and slip deeper into bad habits, it kills both of us. I’m going to be tough on you sometimes, Molly. I have to be. It’s as much for my survival as yours. Got it?”
“Yes,” she said.”

Shift8:
“Because in some ways you are every bit as arrogant as the Council, though you do not realize it. You blame yourself for what happened to Susan. You want to blame yourself for more.”

Telynn:
Michael slapping Harry across the face with this very subject in Skin Game is one of my favorite scenes.

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