The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Justine plot hole [BG spoilers]
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 06, 2020, 06:08:41 PM ---Via Cowl, maybe.. I believe it was he who gave Denton the wolf belts. I think in the soul gaze Harry caught a glimpse of Denton kneeling and taking them from a robed figure.
--- End quote ---
That's where I'm at. Whether or not he was infected, I'm not so sure.
@Griffyn612: Assuming Lily knew exactly what she's talking about, she didn't even say Sells' love and Denton's good intentions were destroyed/distorted, respectively. Much less that they were infected by Nemesis. She just really strongly implied it. Fairies.
I'm not saying they weren't infected. I'm saying that we don't know. If we can believe Jim, and we've seen him lie/change his mind in Christmas Eve, then they weren't infected.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 06, 2020, 07:02:57 PM ---That's where I'm at. Whether or not he was infected, I'm not so sure.
@Griffyn612: Assuming Lily knew exactly what she's talking about, she didn't even say Sells' love and Denton's good intentions were destroyed/distorted, respectively. Much less that they were infected by Nemesis. She just really strongly implied it. Fairies.
I'm not saying they weren't infected. I'm saying that we don't know. If we can believe Jim, and we've seen him lie/change his mind in Christmas Eve, then they weren't infected.
--- End quote ---
Harry made Lily answer a direct question about Nemesis:
--- Quote ---"Lily. Are you sure that this contagion you speak of is real, and works the way you say it does?"
Lilly looked like opening her mouth exposed her taste buds to something foul, but she answered, "Absolutely."
--- End quote ---
She then hedged her answer about something she wasn't sure about, which was Mab's supposed infection.
--- Quote ---"Are you sure Mab has been... been infected?"
"I am all but certain," Lily said. "But I have not examined her for myself."
--- End quote ---
So we can see where she's willing to hedge some things but not others. As to how much of her initial conversation was due to knowledge she had as Summer Lady versus what she learned from Maeve (which may have been misdirection), we don't know. She was also sure she could sense Nemesis in people, but that apparently wasn't real.
Bad Alias:
How did she say it works? (Rhetorical because you provided the quote). She didn't really say they were infected. Jim said they weren't. If it wasn't for Jim's statement, I'd assume they were infected. I'd still say we don't know. People on the forum have a tendency to ignore all of Harry's warnings about listening to the Sidhe. In context it's clear she's talking about Sells and Denton. Harry's repeatedly warned to not rely on context.
If I would get money for guessing right, my guess would be that Nemesis was behind Sells and Denton, but they weren't infected, just manipulated.
Just to add to your point, we now know that the Ladies are incapable of just giving a straight answer.
BrainFireBob:
Without a bargain.
Harry tells Maeve to "cut the evil kinktress routine and we can get down to brass tacks"- and she does
Ramirez offers to assist Molly if she levels with him in Cold Case. She can suddenly speak to him straight regarding the issue at hand.
You have to offer the Ladies a bargain to get straight info. Or maybe just the Sidhe.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 06, 2020, 08:06:59 PM ---How did she say it works? (Rhetorical because you provided the quote). She didn't really say they were infected. Jim said they weren't. If it wasn't for Jim's statement, I'd assume they were infected. I'd still say we don't know. People on the forum have a tendency to ignore all of Harry's warnings about listening to the Sidhe. In context it's clear she's talking about Sells and Denton. Harry's repeatedly warned to not rely on context.
If I would get money for guessing right, my guess would be that Nemesis was behind Sells and Denton, but they weren't infected, just manipulated.
Just to add to your point, we now know that the Ladies are incapable of just giving a straight answer.
--- End quote ---
I'm in the camp that using dark magic corrupts a person with <insert term for the corruption>, which opens doors in the mind that otherwise remain shut. Nemesis/Beside can then whisper through those doors, twisting the individual without actually possessing them.
The Corruption would occur without Beside, but Beside can make it worse and guide it. I think that's what he did with Sells and Denton and the rest. He never possessed them fully, he just whispered and twisted using the corruption as a gateway.
But with Lea, Aurora, Maeve, Cat Sith, and Justine, there seems to have been some level of actual possession. At least for three of them. We're not 100% on Aurora or Maeve being possessed. They may have been corrupted and twisted by whispers, but not possessed. We only see Lea (on ice), Cat Sith (on boat), and Justine (on boat) be outright controlled.
So obviously, Harry should never go anywhere on a boat with anyone ever again. And also, maybe Justine is a scion or changeling of some sort after all, which allowed for the possession, whereas a full mortal human wouldn't due to free will laws. But I could also see where enough corruption and whispers could leave a human open to possession. After all, Before was in a human body (and a somewhat joking post-script WOJ is that it was Vito) and Behind was (briefly) in a human body.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version