Author Topic: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]  (Read 70411 times)

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #210 on: November 02, 2020, 01:44:43 AM »
The general thrust of the comment is that he didn't make a point of moving out even after enemies (e.g. Grevane) showed that other people are at risk just living in the same building as him, he might care for them but he still consciously put them at risk.
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Offline StrayDog

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #211 on: November 02, 2020, 02:40:03 AM »
@Mira
Thank you for providing generalized bullet points but I'm significantly versed on Abnormal Psychologies that I don't need the refresher. Concerning your reply: The first person narrative [Harry's point of view] had no impact on my opinion about Harry's personality so further explanation of narrative styles aren't applicable. The bulk of your replies to your bullet points talk of titles, occupations, or minimalizes his feelings because we all have them. This side steps at the best or justifies his actions. Your second to last point is a subtle ad hominem about which books I've been reading while ignoring the number of times other characters have told Harry precisely how they have been treated. You fail to address the final point when there are instances in every single book where he demeans, intimidates, bullies, and/or belittles others.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #212 on: November 02, 2020, 04:56:14 AM »
Perhaps Mira was a bit overzealous, but I don't particularly see any flaws in logic in her bullet points here..
Instead of claiming he has done each of those several times in each book how about you right your own bullet points as evidence? Because
Quote
instances in every single book where he demeans, intimidates, bullies, and/or belittles others.
that in particular I don't find go be true. Standing up to monsters doesn't count, Nor truly the rest of the claim for Narcissistic personality disorder.. so, explain and give evidence? Uncondense the conversation and tell it to us properly because multiple people just don't see it. With some book citations please.

Online Dina

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #213 on: November 02, 2020, 05:35:55 AM »
Well, I think he has always being somewhat of a bully, because he has intimidated several vanilla people. Cops, Marcone people (Varsity), I am sure there are other examples I am too sleepy to remember now. But he has also resisted bullies and protected the helpless. So it's not so easy or black & white.
In the rest of the points, I agree with Mira
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Offline Mira

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #214 on: November 02, 2020, 05:48:17 AM »
I doubt narcissistic personality disorder. But like most people he has a fairly large blind spot for understanding what living around him means.  As an example, he lived in a basement apartment and ended up getting two of his neighbors burned out  He knew his presence had made it a combat zone. And yet his little apartment was a greater imperative then his neighbors safety.  As if shoveling the snow made up for that.

Which might be part of what makes a wizard, a wizard, most live solitary lives for a reason.  A bit of arrogance goes with the territory if you can wield that kind of power.  An old actor named Walter Brennan played a character in a television western, one of his repeated lines was, "it ain't bragging if it is fact."  That kind of how it is with wizards.

Getting back to why most wizards live solitary lives, it is dangerous to be around them.  At least in the world Harry lives in, and yes you could say he didn't perhaps appreciate the danger him living in he beloved basement apartment put others in.  However he had to live somewhere, and until the caper in Hades where he acquired a sock full of diamonds, as the saying goes, Harry was mostly "so poor he didn't have a pot to piss in let alone a window to throw it out of."  He lived in a place he could afford, most likely not giving any thought to the safety of those who lived around him.  But then again, back in Dead Beat when a troupe of zombies danced though his place, or the the frog demon back in Storm Front, or the numerous times he had been shot at or beat up on his door step, no one in the building lobbied for him to be evicted either.  Intimidated? Maybe.. Or was Harry a decent neighbor and it was a tough neighborhood?

Quote
Well, I think he has always being somewhat of a bully, because he has intimidated several vanilla people. Cops, Marcone people (Varsity), I am sure there are other examples I am too sleepy to remember now. But he has also resisted bullies and protected the helpless. So it's not so easy or black & white.

I disagree about Marcone, he isn't the kind of guy that can be bullied, nor those who work for him, he does the bullying if anything or his people do.  Harry did play tough against him, but that is what Marcone respects.  I also think he was mostly respectful to cops if they are respectful to him.  I totally agree that it is more grey than black and white.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #215 on: November 02, 2020, 06:08:03 AM »
Well, I think he has always being somewhat of a bully, because he has intimidated several vanilla people. Cops, Marcone people (Varsity),
you can't bully a bully though. He didn't target the people in the varsity, he targeted Marcone, who had already tried to put Harry under his thumb, same with Marcones people. Being intimidating isn't bullying per se. He stands up when people come on strong to him, not so subtle difference. Bullying is putting others down for the purpose of feeling better about yourself and your own inadequacy.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #216 on: November 02, 2020, 06:24:49 AM »
The general thrust of the comment is that he didn't make a point of moving out even after enemies (e.g. Grevane) showed that other people are at risk just living in the same building as him, he might care for them but he still consciously put them at risk.
Hé has huge blind spots but that does not make him a narcissist. His good heart is mentioned several times and he takes risks for other people.

His suicide in Changes for example was wrong in all kinds of ways but it does not fit a narcissistic personality. He genuinely cares for other people even if he lacks basic social skills in maintaining friendships.

We might end up with some sort of diagnosis but narcissism is simply the wrong one.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 11:02:41 AM by Arjan »
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #217 on: November 02, 2020, 11:30:02 AM »
His back was broken saving one neighbour of the fire, so I say he cares for them.
Had he not lived so close to neighbors that they could burn if someone thought he should burn, then he wouldn't have gotten his back broken trying to rescue them. 

They don't put fireworks manufacturing facilities in residential neighborhoods for a good reason.  On occasion they've been known to blow up. It's was fun to watch how Jim has handled it.  It was a perfect vehicle for humor. But it is what it is.

Offline Mira

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #218 on: November 02, 2020, 12:20:27 PM »
Had he not lived so close to neighbors that they could burn if someone thought he should burn, then he wouldn't have gotten his back broken trying to rescue them. 

They don't put fireworks manufacturing facilities in residential neighborhoods for a good reason.  On occasion they've been known to blow up. It's was fun to watch how Jim has handled it.  It was a perfect vehicle for humor. But it is what it is.

Though there are guys, actually a nice man, who lived in a next door boarding house had an arsenal in his room and one of the guns did go off and hit the house across the street.  That happened to us when we first moved to Seattle years ago, and it was a nice middle class neighborhood for the most part.  And before that my husband's uncle, a WWI vet who though a very gentle man, never thought things through, used to keep a couple of pounds of gun powder under his bed, he lived in a room in an old hotel in Chicago.. So it happens..

Offline Arjan

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #219 on: November 02, 2020, 01:08:22 PM »
Though there are guys, actually a nice man, who lived in a next door boarding house had an arsenal in his room and one of the guns did go off and hit the house across the street.  That happened to us when we first moved to Seattle years ago, and it was a nice middle class neighborhood for the most part.  And before that my husband's uncle, a WWI vet who though a very gentle man, never thought things through, used to keep a couple of pounds of gun powder under his bed, he lived in a room in an old hotel in Chicago.. So it happens..
I forgot which book it was but there was a discussion between Harry and Ebenezar about what was worse, stupid or evil.
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Online Dina

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #220 on: November 02, 2020, 01:26:48 PM »
Well, as Mira says, he has to live somewhere and he has no money for a nice white fence home in the suburbia. He did the best he could, a basement and very well protected so the bad guy thought twice before attacking.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #221 on: November 02, 2020, 02:36:33 PM »
Quote
I forgot which book it was but there was a discussion between Harry and Ebenezar about what was worse, stupid or evil.

Well, one you have an excuse for, you cannot cure stupid..  And evil, is just evil..  In the case of the guy who lived in the boarding house next door to us, he was just stupid, and maybe a little paranoid. In the case of my husband's uncle, surviving the trenches did something to his head, some things he just didn't give damn about.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #222 on: November 02, 2020, 04:12:10 PM »
Well, as Mira says, he has to live somewhere and he has no money for a nice white fence home in the suburbia. He did the best he could, a basement and very well protected so the bad guy thought twice before attacking.
But there are ways for a wizard to get money. He should have given that more attention.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #223 on: November 02, 2020, 04:48:24 PM »
But there are ways for a wizard to get money. He should have given that more attention.

He was a P.I. and a good one, that took up his time.  He never was interested in money, as
long as he was comfortable, he was content. 

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« Reply #224 on: November 02, 2020, 04:52:44 PM »
Though there are guys, actually a nice man, who lived in a next door boarding house had an arsenal in his room and one of the guns did go off and hit the house across the street.  That happened to us when we first moved to Seattle years ago, and it was a nice middle class neighborhood for the most part.  And before that my husband's uncle, a WWI vet who though a very gentle man, never thought things through, used to keep a couple of pounds of gun powder under his bed, he lived in a room in an old hotel in Chicago.. So it happens..
I have a friend who loads his own ammo, and we all have hazards in our homes of some type. But if you care about the people you live near you don't bring your problems to their doors. You don't cook meth, you don't build bombs and you don't have zombie parties. It'll get you talked about and sued or you'll get a stretch in Joliet State Prison. :o