The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Inconsistent characters & storytelling

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Griffyn612:
I agree that Eb was off in PT, but I think he was more like himself in BG.  He had his psychotic break, and then settled down again, and was himself.

As for as Carlos goes, I think he was different, but that was mostly because of the situation.

* Four years have gone by since they've seen each other.
* Harry became the left hand of the Dark Sidhe, killers and murderers and baby snatchers.
* Undoubtedly word spread that Mab and Harry having sex was broadcast to all of Sidhe territory.
* Harry died, for a while, before coming back by unknown means.
* On his first day back, Harry's apprentice becomes the Winter Lady.
* Despite being back, Harry doesn't check in with the Council or Wardens, other than meeting briefly with Rashid.
* The next time Harry shows up on anyone's radar, he's working with Nicodemus and other known criminals, including someone with a death sentence from the Council.
* Civilians are killed in that encounter.
* Afterwards, Harry continues to not check in or speak to the Council.
* Carlos sees the Winter Lady, who almost kills him after leading him on.
* He sees first-hand how savage a Winter mantle is, and how it can twist people to do horrible things, even to friends.
* Carlos is left scarred and handicapped because he trusted a once-friend who is now tied to Winter.
* To our knowledge, Harry never checks on Carlos, or tries to help him understand what's happening.
* The next time they see each other, Carlos finds Harry with a Wamp.
* The next time, he's coming back from a rendezvous with the defacto White Queen.
* Harry continues to not communicate with Carlos or the Council.
* Harry apparently cuts out of a formal function to have sex with the defacto White Queen.
* Harry breaks guest law to break out a White Court vampire, leaving the White Council guilty by association.
* Harry embarrasses Carlos in front of his superiors and the supernatural leaders of the world.
* Harry shows up again and has apparently enthralled/enlisted an army of Little Folk, twisting them to his will.
* Harry leads them on an assault, dividing their forces in the process and separating the strongest member from the rest.
* Carlos watches two of his friends and allies, who he spent a lot more time with than Harry, who he fought a war beside, die.
* He watches his two friends be taken, presumably to be turned into monsters themselves.
* Harry's immediate concern after that is to find out info from Listens rather than show concern for his dead allies.
* Carlos is then out of the fight for the rest of the night.
* Next thing Carlos hears is that Harry killed humans with magic, the biggest no-no there is.
* When Carlos confronts him, Harry confesses, and shows absolutely zero remorse.
Carlos' attitude seems entirely reasonable under those conditions.  He tried numerous times to talk to Harry, and Harry refused each time.  It's hard for Harry to play the victim card when he was the instrument of the destruction of their friendship.

b4utoo:
Why should Harry have to defend himself against accusations that any response would lead right back to the white counsel. Harry is a wolf and Carlos is a sheep. Do you stop and explain yourself to a roach? lol But seriously. JimB has way to much story for PT and BG jammed into those two books. He could of easily put down a 3rd book and expanded on relationships and scenery as well as a few other things

Mira:

--- Quote ---Next thing Carlos hears is that Harry killed humans with magic, the biggest no-no there is
--- End quote ---

Except Carlos also agrees that they were turtlenecks, but then says the White Court definition of humans covers quite a bit of ground.  The Council must of thought they weren't exactly on firm ground either with that one because they suspended the death sentence.  Now if Harry had succeeded in killing Rudy with magic it would have been a different matter.. I bet if you checked Carlos's record he might have killed a few Turtlenecks as well by magic... The whole thing smells of a railroad job.

Yuillegan:

--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on October 01, 2020, 10:35:18 PM ---I agree that Eb was off in PT, but I think he was more like himself in BG.  He had his psychotic break, and then settled down again, and was himself.

As for as Carlos goes, I think he was different, but that was mostly because of the situation.

* Four years have gone by since they've seen each other.
* Harry became the left hand of the Dark Sidhe, killers and murderers and baby snatchers.
* Undoubtedly word spread that Mab and Harry having sex was broadcast to all of Sidhe territory.
* Harry died, for a while, before coming back by unknown means.
* On his first day back, Harry's apprentice becomes the Winter Lady.
* Despite being back, Harry doesn't check in with the Council or Wardens, other than meeting briefly with Rashid.
* The next time Harry shows up on anyone's radar, he's working with Nicodemus and other known criminals, including someone with a death sentence from the Council.
* Civilians are killed in that encounter.
* Afterwards, Harry continues to not check in or speak to the Council.
* Carlos sees the Winter Lady, who almost kills him after leading him on.
* He sees first-hand how savage a Winter mantle is, and how it can twist people to do horrible things, even to friends.
* Carlos is left scarred and handicapped because he trusted a once-friend who is now tied to Winter.
* To our knowledge, Harry never checks on Carlos, or tries to help him understand what's happening.
* The next time they see each other, Carlos finds Harry with a Wamp.
* The next time, he's coming back from a rendezvous with the defacto White Queen.
* Harry continues to not communicate with Carlos or the Council.
* Harry apparently cuts out of a formal function to have sex with the defacto White Queen.
* Harry breaks guest law to break out a White Court vampire, leaving the White Council guilty by association.
* Harry embarrasses Carlos in front of his superiors and the supernatural leaders of the world.
* Harry shows up again and has apparently enthralled/enlisted an army of Little Folk, twisting them to his will.
* Harry leads them on an assault, dividing their forces in the process and separating the strongest member from the rest.
* Carlos watches two of his friends and allies, who he spent a lot more time with than Harry, who he fought a war beside, die.
* He watches his two friends be taken, presumably to be turned into monsters themselves.
* Harry's immediate concern after that is to find out info from Listens rather than show concern for his dead allies.
* Carlos is then out of the fight for the rest of the night.
* Next thing Carlos hears is that Harry killed humans with magic, the biggest no-no there is.
* When Carlos confronts him, Harry confesses, and shows absolutely zero remorse.
Carlos' attitude seems entirely reasonable under those conditions.  He tried numerous times to talk to Harry, and Harry refused each time.  It's hard for Harry to play the victim card when he was the instrument of the destruction of their friendship.

--- End quote ---
It's great stuff by Jim, because perspective changes how a lot of interactions look in the series. We know that Dresden was just doing his best to keep his head above water. But quite right that from Ramirez's point of view, it looks mighty suspicious.

Like most things in life, it's not a black and white issue. And like most conflicts, a bit more talking and trying to empathize with the other person would go a long way to solving things. But things are a bit far gone. Too much bad stuff has happened and emotions are running high. Sadly, I think it might well end in Carlos dying.

One thing Jim has been doing a long time is trying to show how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And considering Harry is LITERALLY going to go to hell during the BAT, I'd say Harry is going to find out the hard way. But Uriel did tell Dresden how to find his way back. So it's not all bad. The entire series is a long running analysis of unintended consequences.

BrainFireBob:

--- Quote from: b4utoo on October 01, 2020, 11:29:40 PM ---Why should Harry have to defend himself against accusations that any response would lead right back to the white counsel. Harry is a wolf and Carlos is a sheep. Do you stop and explain yourself to a roach? lol But seriously. JimB has way to much story for PT and BG jammed into those two books. He could of easily put down a 3rd book and expanded on relationships and scenery as well as a few other things

--- End quote ---

The Council are sheep. Carlos is either a fox or wolfhound. Carlos thinks Harry a rabid wolfhound at this point, instead of a wolf who used to play nice.

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