The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Barbara Books Q&A
vultur:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on September 30, 2020, 08:06:21 PM ---Bindings are difficult and the beings aren't trustworthy.
--- End quote ---
I'm not talking about binding anything. Just the inherent power of oaths with supernatural beings.
Kemmler to imprisoned old god: "If you swear to destroy the White Council as soon as you can, and not to harm me, I will release you."
That's all it would take.
--- Quote ---Anything he released to annihilate the council- could he confine it himself?
--- End quote ---
Perhaps, but why would he bother? Total chaos would work in his favor.
--- Quote ---"I incited thermonuclear war/the plague to end all plagues. Trust me, Council's gone. Good luck with the fallout."
--- End quote ---
That's actually probably a win for Kemmler. Really good conditions for a Darkhallow. Once he's a god, does he care about what happens to humanity?
Even if he couldn't Darkhallow immediately, the more chaos, the more surviving people would flock to an unifying force, which Kemmler could be. Civilization started with a tiny population compared to the modern era (or even the late 18th century where Kemmler got started); he could build a new civilization, which could hardly hurt his efforts to become a deity.
BrainFireBob:
Those are bindings.
It's a total monkey's paw/letter of request situation.
"I want you to eliminate the White Council problem."
*kills Kemmler*
He doesn't want to release a rival. Even becoming a god- since he already had immortality- is a means, not an ends. We don't know what his endgame was.
vultur:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on September 30, 2020, 08:21:21 PM ---Those are bindings.
--- End quote ---
A "binding" oath (eg Harry and Lea in the early books) is not at all the same thing as a wizard "binding" an entity (Harry's attempt to bind the Erlking in DB, Ethniu in BG).
--- Quote ---It's a total monkey's paw/letter of request situation.
--- End quote ---
Not if Kemmler has half a brain. There's no reason why he can't pick an entity which would have no objection to destroying the White Council - there must be plenty like that in Demonreach. It could easily be a mutually beneficial alliance.
And Kemmler wouldn't have survived as long as he did if he was dumb enough to phrase these sorts of bargains *that* exploitably.
(This is something that actually kind of bugs me. As DV Fae and other supernaturals are bound to their natures, bargaining with them ought to be basically zero-risk for someone who understands their natures. It shouldn't be dangerous for anyone except uninformed people like Harry when he dealt with Lea; actual White Council Wizards should have no trouble.)
BrainFireBob:
Yeah, you don't have a lot of experience with that kind of literalist, I think. My brother makes a point of it.
There's massive amounts of folklore that sums up as "it's not easy."
Also, the idea that there's an entity that would be friendly to Kemmler but anti Council and totally willing to be helpful- is highly speculative on your part. The helpful ones- and the ones that will agree to such bargains- aren't the ones locked up.
EDIT: Kemmler would do such work himself, the only way to ensure it was done as he would have it done. If he lacked power, he'd go get more power.
Second edit: So as not to go back and forth on this, define:
Destroy
White Council
Freedom
Etc.
See, that's the problem. "Destroy the white council" "Copy- YOU! RENAME YOUR COUNCIL THE FUSCIA COUNCIL!"
Or "Well, you never said *when*"
Or extinction level events
Or disbanding the council but leaving its members alone
Or including Kemmler in the Council
Or equating it to their headquarters
There's near-infinite wiggle room in even the most straightforward request because of definition flexibility.
vultur:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on September 30, 2020, 09:52:30 PM ---There's massive amounts of folklore that sums up as "it's not easy."
--- End quote ---
Oh, absolutely. I'm just not sure how well that concept works with the Dresdenverse concept of supernatural beings being bound to their natures (as opposed to mortal free will).
That fact allows a far more complete certainty of how a being will act given certain conditions (eg specific terms of an oath) than is possible with humans.
--- Quote ---Also, the idea that there's an entity that would be friendly to Kemmler but anti Council and totally willing to be helpful- is highly speculative on your part.
--- End quote ---
Not necessarily "friendly" but "capable of recognizing a mutually-beneficial alliance". If the Council were gone, Kemmler would have huge latitude to set up his own organization and feed worship, sacrifices, or whatever else these beings get from cults to any of his allies.
Really, why wouldn't almost any dark entity be OK with that?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version