The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Don't upset the mortals...
vultur:
--- Quote from: ClintACK on September 03, 2020, 11:22:47 AM ---I wonder how effective wizardly hexes (and the much bigger Eye of Balor effect) are against hardened military electronics, the kind designed to withstand EMP weapons.
--- End quote ---
It might help marginally, to the degree that the components themselves are less sensitive. But the hex effect is not actually EMP (it can hit non-electronic stuff, like automatic weapons) so I don't think the actual shielding would do anything at all.
And even hardened electronics are going to be way more sensitive than automatic weapons, so a really strong hex effect will wipe out everything anyway.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on September 03, 2020, 06:23:30 PM ---Anything can be shielded, unless Jim is postulating some uber super weapon that killed the power world wide.
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It's distance based, sure, but Faraday cages and stuff won't block magic fields.
--- Quote ---And if anything away from Chicago was still functioning then they could vaporize major parts of the lake and kill anything in it. And keep hitting it until they ran out of weapons. Ol whats her name could take a multi century vacation to put together her pieces and parts, assuming any pieces and part were left
--- End quote ---
No one's going to use attacks on that scale on their own major cities.
And according to Etri, Ethniu's titanic bronze armor is immune to any degree of physical force. IMO that means no mortal weapon, even nuclear, would work.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: vultur on September 04, 2020, 02:39:17 AM ---It might help marginally, to the degree that the components themselves are less sensitive. But the hex effect is not actually EMP (it can hit non-electronic stuff, like automatic weapons) so I don't think the actual shielding would do anything at all.
And even hardened electronics are going to be way more sensitive than automatic weapons, so a really strong hex effect will wipe out everything anyway.
It's distance based, sure, but Faraday cages and stuff won't block magic fields.
No one's going to use attacks on that scale on their own major cities.
And according to Etri, Ethniu's titanic bronze armor is immune to any degree of physical force. IMO that means no mortal weapon, even nuclear, would work.
--- End quote ---
Obviously the Swartelves can block magic based interference at some level otherwise Harry would be living in a cave.
Unless I misunderstand, isn't Ethniu's intention to kill everyone in Chicago? Someone killed 3000, give or take, and we entered a never ending war with everything that implies. Chicago has at least 2.5 million. So exactly what is the downside of nuking the Fomor who don't have a magic helmet assuming that they murder Chicago? Morgan used a nuke on a Skin Walker. And that was crude compared to a modern device.
Which of course is not what Jim is going to write. Harry's going to stick her in the leg. Just like the Redcap put the Hawthorn dart into him. And then put her in a high security magic lamp for an indefinite term.
huangjimmy108:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 03, 2020, 02:23:55 AM ---Jim has always said, and even in Peace Talks openly discusses, that the supernatural world are very wary to upset the angry frightened mortals because they grab their torch and pitchforks and nukes and might burn everything down.
Except, history shows that while internally the persecution of Witches and Wizards etc. might happen - human nations are unlikely to band together. In point of fact, they often take the opportunity to settle debts, seize power, and get one up on their traditional enemies. And any strategist worth his salt knows that divide and conquer is half the work anyway. Clearly part of Corb and Ethniu's plan at any rate, at least when it comes to the Accorded Nations.
Jim has actually set this up in some ways. Kemmler was largely responsible for both the first and second World Wars. He pits nation against nation and takes advantage in the chaos. I doubt he was the only one. Even historically, many nations used the Wars to get away with things they otherwise might not have.
War is often attractive in that sense too, because it can be incredibly profitable to the winner.
So if Ethniu and even other villains were to upset the mortals, I don't think it would be particularly difficult or hard to imagine that they would play us off against one another ("Here, we will give you the information/power to overcome your rival [x] if you attack this country at the same time as us") or ("Do this or die") etc.
Why take us all on when it's so much easier to get us to fight among ourselves? We barely get along within our own nations, let alone as a planet.
Nations and leaders are often bought for much less than what a God or some other such power could offer, and often scared much easier too. The sad truth is that if an enemy attacked planet Earth, if they had any battle sense and did any sort of real recon and intelligence gathering they would take us apart. We just aren't that cohesive.
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I don't really know. If the supernatural world stay in the shadows and manipulate nations that way, what you say here is almost certain to happened.
But if the supernatural world come out in the open? The story may be different. Because now humankind has a clear target.A target so scary, so different, so alien there may be no negotiation or communication. There is no surrender and even if the monster offer terms of surrender can humankind trust them?
The supernatural world is scary and they are different from normal humans. The fear of humankind may be great enough to unite humankind against the monsters.
As for means to fight the supernaturals. Well, it is not very obvious, but humankind has great power over the supernatural. JB is very subtle about this, but hints are sprinkled here and there throughout the series.
The collective will of human kind is a mighty force. A Threshold of a home. Walls of cemetary that does not allow spirits to pass through unless the gates is opened. Basically, once humankind gathered their will it could create miracles. Not to mentions forces like TWG who most likely protect vanilla humans.
If a war between supernatural and humankind erupt, the current system probably would collapse, but humankind itself would most likely survive and even thrive while the supernatural powers will suffer great losses which they may or may not be able to recover from.
vultur:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on September 04, 2020, 03:07:03 AM ---Obviously the Swartelves can block magic based interference at some level otherwise Harry would be living in a cave.
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I'm not saying no shielding is possible, but that existing mundane shielding on military technology designed for EMPs shouldn't do anything vs. hexing.
The Svartalves are designing specifically to deal with hexing, already understanding the principles of magic, and likely using magic themselves.
--- Quote --- So exactly what is the downside of nuking the Fomor who don't have a magic helmet assuming that they murder Chicago?
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Well, if they had already succeeded in killing off Chicago, then using nukes might be considered.
But it still wouldn't accomplish much... Harry says that Ethniu with the Eye of Balor is the big problem, not the Fomor army.
Without Ethniu and the Eye of Balor (and its super-hex effect) a Fomor army could be dealt with perfectly well by conventional weapons. The powerful sorcerers like Mag from Even Hand can shield effectively, but they only have so much energy, and most of their forces would be minions who can't do that.
--- Quote ---Morgan used a nuke on a Skin Walker. And that was crude compared to a modern device.
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A skinwalker isn't remotely on Ethniu's level. Listens-to-Wind was able to chase one off; Ethniu is significantly stronger than Mab, therefore much more than a match for the entire White Council.
--- Quote ---Which of course is not what Jim is going to write.
--- End quote ---
Sure, nukes won't show up in BG, but re: mortals vs supernatural world in general, I do think it's important that mortal weapons work great against wizards and vampires and stuff (e.g. sniper rifle vs Harry in Changes), but that there is an "upper limit".
Mortals can't really invade the NN without wizards helping, and anyway reality is mutable there at the will of the ruling powers (like the time bending in PG).
And Ethniu could probably literally just ignore being hit with any mundane weapon. It would take something like the Swords or the Athame/Spearhead, or maybe mordite, to harm her (short of a comparably powerful being, like Hades or maybe Ferrovax).
Mira:
All power is shut down, that limits mortal reaction to long guns and hand guns.. Though grenades transparently still work, however Harry and company were still off shore. Which brings up another question, if nothing motorized works, how much closer can Harry get before the old boat motor quits?
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