The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Fomor already unleashed ... Battle Ground Chapters 1 & 2
Conspiracy Theorist:
The Faerie Queens are all Mantles and should not be confused with their progenitor deities. They are not one to one substitutions .
The Power of Hecate and the Fates/Norns were siphoned into the Mantles creating the Mother/Maiden/Crone triptych we now have for both Summer and Winter, setting their relative strengths and balance against each other.
When Harry seeks to summon Mother Winter, he isn’t calling to the former deity, he is calling to the power the former deity had siphoned into Mother Winters Mantle, where a good chunk (but probably not all of her power) resided. That’s the point of Mantles, they allow the creation of something new which is greater than the sum of its parts. The Fates/Norns and Hecate are single Malts, the Queens are blends, but both with get you equally drunk.
If it was a one on one substitution why create the Mantles?
The purpose was to create a defender of the Outer Gates and a watchdog for that Defender (and seriously Summer have been derelict in their duty), and as originally constituted the deities could not perform that function
The_Sibelis:
Actually that's all just as much conjecture as any theory. We don't know mantles are NOT one for one, and that the identity itself changed. In fact per woj that is what happened with some deity.
Not all mantles were fashioned as the Sidhe were.
What you're actually implying is the courts themselves have more than one deity fed into them through the table, which is entirely possible. But we don't know the mothers simply didn't shift to align with the new order, as we have Woj that it effects them.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Yes we do we have had a lengthy exposition about the true nature of Halloween, you don’t put that in and the ignore it, it is Checkov’s God.
vultur:
--- Quote from: ClintACK on September 08, 2020, 11:24:06 AM ---I've always seen Clotho-Lachesis-Atropos described in the maiden-mother-hag model of the tripart-goddess.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, exactly. (At least for the DV; I think that model is often applied to RL mythology rather more broadly than it actually fits.)
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on September 08, 2020, 10:15:32 AM ---both mothers are not atropos... Only one of the fates welds the snippers.
--- End quote ---
IMO they both are; it's not just the Shears.
The Jars are Mother Summer's aspect of Death - Death by life turned against itself (whether through infection or cancer or whatever).
MW doesn't just have the Shears but also iron teeth - she is Entropy, the consumer of all life, death by exhaustion of life (old age) or energy (starvation, cold).
Both Courts have Life/Death and Maker/Destroyer aspects (see what Mab says about Winter's drive to reproduce in "Cold Case")
--- Quote ---The Fae clearly have soul worked into their existence, it's one of the reasons things like the spiders actually EXIST and leave bodies...
--- End quote ---
Their leaving bodies is a result of them having real matter in their bodies, not just NN ectoplasm. I don't see how it relates to soul vs spirit.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 08, 2020, 06:02:40 AM ---I don't think they ever had Mantles as the power was never built up in such a package. I think due to their nature they took the power the only way they could: by feeding.
--- End quote ---
I agree. I think it's kind of like Kemmler, he ate ghosts to gain power (according to Mab) but never successfully completed a Darkhallow to form an actual Mantle.
When Harry ate Kravos' ghost in GP, he used up the power and then it was gone. Without a Mantle, Kemmler probably had to keep eating more ghosts.
--- Quote ---I did find the LoON a bit underwhelming. But perhaps they were meant to be.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I don't think they are weaker than they "should" be. I mean the Faerie Ladies are actual Immortals and they (except Molly) are IMO much less impressive than the LoON.
The_Sibelis:
They are not jars of death, they are jars of lethal things, big difference. And Harry pretty much postulates on a period of rampant growth to have the same effect in SK. Just because it kills us doesn't mean it's death. The planet would survive just fine.
The drive to reproduce is not a drive to create things...
Because things purely of spirit do not have bodies. Things purely of soul can be proven to have them, per Uriel, tho. Things with pieces of soul actually exist. Might not have a whole one, but they were made from soul.
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