The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I am 99% sure that Cowl is Dresden from the future
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on August 29, 2020, 04:49:12 AM ---IIRC he just got a general "taller than Kumori" statement.The other problem with Cowl being Harry is that, as you pointed out, his fine control is way better than Harry's. He'd have to be Harry from decades if not centuries in the future.
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I remember now from a FB group question, Cowl in the Deeps is Harry with Lasciel. they wanted to know what form harry would take with her coin. From the stark contrast in Nic and Harry's mirroring I predict Lasciel would manifest similar to Anduriel, except aflame. That flaming bird in the deeps, I think that was Lasciel. So his control would indeed have been supplemented.
*I shoulda went with Gary as my new avatar name 🤦♂️ dang missed opportunity that was lol
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on August 30, 2020, 05:00:43 PM ---the only one to mention the circle is cowl yes? We are making the assumption that the circle is the same as the black council because that's the assumption Harry has made, we don't know how, if at all, the two are connected. Although I do consider, if Harry's IS traveling through time, then it would make sense if another harry is doing the same with opposite intentions. Idk that he's actually trying to actively kill him though again, every time he shows up he's changing something like, if he hadn't been in the deeps/ messing with outsiders would Lash have sacrificed herself into Bonnie? Lash clearly makes a choice there, a choice cowl had a hand in forcing.
The purpose in story, would be changing the timeline, why that's needed depends. I favor him hopping through time to get back to his own reality on jump at at time, but it could well be he has to do so to fix the realities where MM Harry drew the other Harry's from, maybe a mission assigned by Uriel?
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Given what Jim has told us about time travel consider that his model attempts to get rid of the largest problem with time travel stories. They break cause and effect. The idea is that if you change the past you split the time line.
This implies that if Harry goes back in time and changes things that he branches time and creates another him when he does it. So in a timeline where Susan doesn't die for instance, there is another Harry there. Supposedly this is the premise of Mirror Mirror. Vadderung lays this out in Cold Days.
--- Quote ---“A twinned universe,” Vadderung said. “A new parallel reality, identical except for that event. One in which you never existed, and one in which you failed to kill your grandfather.” I pursed my lips. “That . . . doesn’t really end well for me in either case.” “An excellent reason not to meddle in the natural course of time, wouldn’t you say? Meddling with time is an irrationally, outrageously, catastrophically dangerous and costly business. I encourage you to avoid it at all costs.”
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 215). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
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This idea breaks a lot of theories around Harry coming back from the future to do anything. So if Harry was destined to die during the first use of LC, then no universe would exist after that point that had Harry in it. To create a timeline where Harry exists after that point, someone other than Harry would have to change the event. So if by Harry's death the Outsiders manage to break in through the gates, then someone from that timeline could jump to Harry's past and fix LC, but the universe they came from wouldn't change. But a new time line would spawn where Harry doesn't die.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on August 30, 2020, 07:46:48 PM ---Given what Jim has told us about time travel consider that his model attempts to get rid of the largest problem with time travel stories. They break cause and effect. The idea is that if you change the past you split the time line.
This implies that if Harry goes back in time and changes things that he branches time and creates another him when he does it. So in a timeline where Susan doesn't die for instance, there is another Harry there. Supposedly this is the premise of Mirror Mirror. Vadderung lays this out in Cold Days.
This idea breaks a lot of theories around Harry coming back from the future to do anything. So if Harry was destined to die during the first use of LC, then no universe would exist after that point that had Harry in it. To create a timeline where Harry exists after that point, someone other than Harry would have to change the event. So if by Harry's death the Outsiders manage to break in through the gates, then someone from that timeline could jump to Harry's past and fix LC, but the universe they came from wouldn't change. But a new time line would spawn where Harry doesn't die.
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this is very true but to point out two things, if the timeline we are reading has already been changed, then it's not the original and Harry was only fated to die after the timeline had already been played with, so there's already timelines where he would continue to exist. And the thing with Marcones thug, Kumori does that, and within a cpl hours Cowl moves to confront Harry. I think his absence is significant. If harry died in that Alley he would have been eaten by the ghoul. There wouldn't even be anything to revive via necromancy. I think she had to alter Harry's fate in order for cowl to appear, because he DID die and in such a way he couldn't have come back and ergo couldn't have traveled back in time. There's two of them.
Funny you mention LC, because I think that build up that would have killed Harry? Was future Harry using future unchanged LC to travel backwards to when it was current LC, it was the Time Travel device, or perhaps foci is the better term. So Harry shouldnt have died there anyway.. on the other hand, if the car hadn't hit him and Molly hadn't called, it's likely he would have given into Lash to use LC, picking up the coin for the first time as a consequence.
morriswalters:
And herein lies the problem with time travel. Anything is possible and what is the point of theorizing? Could it be true in the book. Yes. Time travel solves all problems.
Little Chicago isn't a time travel device. It's big brother may be the outer gates. Jim uses the same imagery in describing Marcone's kidnapping with Mab watching and Harry's use of LC in the scene where Cowl attacks him through LC. And by the way it is in that scene in White Knight that the title the Circle is used by Vittorio Malvora when talking to Madrigal. Later in Cold Days Harry realizes that his view is too narrow.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on August 30, 2020, 08:59:19 PM ---And herein lies the problem with time travel. Anything is possible and what is the point of theorizing? Could it be true in the book. Yes. Time travel solves all problems.
Little Chicago isn't a time travel device. It's big brother may be the outer gates. Jim uses the same imagery in describing Marcone's kidnapping with Mab watching and Harry's use of LC in the scene where Cowl attacks him through LC. And by the way it is in that scene in White Knight that the title the Circle is used by Vittorio Malvora when talking to Madrigal. Later in Cold Days Harry realizes that his view is too narrow.
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it's not solving all the problems, they're all just wrapped up in a neat bow for time travel to solve. The idea the outer gates has Anything to do with LC is just as much of a jump, if not more so, than it's a TT device. Being used to thaumaturgically connect to the past is a sound theory. Where as the OG connects to LC because Mab knows how to recreate a scene in ice and snow? I don't see the connection... And Mab using a scrying eye(something seen time and again in the DF, shadow man does the same thing, he's not connected to LC) to watch Marcone and recreating it doesn't connect with anything actually done at the outer gates. Heck if anything it's a Molly is Mab theory connection, she learned the gist of how to recreate a city from her old master lol. And Vittorio is the one working FOR cowl, so that still doesn't connect any other element at large to the circle, just cowl, which was my point.
It's funny to me, how some things are accepted without proof or correlation like that but if it's not popular opinion it's wrong. Like these three walkers.. I'll eat my shoe if they aren't all he who walks before, anyone wanna take that bet lol?
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