The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Molly's Doppelganger Ring Crafting
Conspiracy Theorist:
The Battle of Stamford bridge was 1066 when Mab rode with William the Conqueror, she must have been complicit in stealing the walking stick with the White Council.
There really isn’t any wizards associated with this era, they all tend to be much earlier or a little later, however Michael Scotus/Scot is the first notable wizard after that date 1175 – c. 1232 but these dates are approximations, his birth and death are unknowns. If a genuine White Court Wizard he easily could have been knocking around much earlier in 1066 or before, been Bob’s father and nabbed the Blackstaff with Mab. He would have to be the British Prisoner though to qualify.
vultur:
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on September 04, 2020, 03:44:19 PM ---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_banner
Closest fit I've seen anyone drag up.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I remember this being discussed years ago... but it's not Celtic, it's Norse.
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on September 04, 2020, 03:53:08 PM ---The Battle of Stamford bridge was 1066 when Mab rode with William the Conqueror, she must have been complicit in stealing the walking stick with the White Council.
--- End quote ---
Stamford Bridge was England vs Norway, William the Conqueror (Normans) wasn't in that battle (though it's very close in time).
And something is seriously iffy with the timeline here. King Corb says "I remember your pimply face when you rode with the Conqueror", but surely the immortal Winter Lady wouldn't have pimples? Yet there's no way Mab was still mortal in 1066...
Yuillegan:
Unless she was like Molly...and had only recently become a Winter Lady. She might not have been in that position long.
I think if Winter really wanted their stick back, they would get it back. I think the truth is that there was a deal struck and to a being as old as Mother Winter, it probably hasn't really been that long. Doesn't meant she wouldn't like it back either.
--- Quote from: Mira on September 03, 2020, 03:42:23 AM ---Eb hasn't been on a pedestal as far as Harry is concerned for some time now, ever since Blood Rites when he found out that Eb was the White Council's assassin. He and Eb made peace with one another, it took a while to do it. They could work together, and things got better for a while after Harry found out that Eb was his grandfather. However make no mistake, Harry has issues that have not been resolved about his childhood and his grandfather's neglect, not just of him but apparently his mother as well. That all came out on the playground at the embassy, nothing was resolved, the anger is still there.
I'd say that when he found out part of the truth in Blood Rites Harry regarded Eb as perhaps a bit of a hypocrite. At that point in his life Harry couldn't see that someone could both be a person of integrity as he thought Eb was, and someone who had a "license to kill with magic." Eventually he learned to live with that, then he found out Eb was his grandfather. That is a good thing. However the mistake that Eb is making is now, is he thinks he can take the liberties of a grandfather, giving advice, even when not asked for. In Harry's mind, Eb hasn't earned that right, it might be a while before he does, it may never happen.
Events have moved along, Eb may have good reason to have his fears for Harry, but he is going about it the wrong way. There may not have been time to go about it any way other than the one he did, but it was destined to backfire. Or like many with dementia, Eb has lost the ability to restrain himself emotionally, that is very dangerous for someone with a license to kill with magic.
--- End quote ---
He might have been mad at Eb but ultimately he eventually accepted him as a good man still, despite his reservations. He didn't realise that Eb wasn't merely morally grey, but also an incredibly savage and violent man at times. He hadn't really seen that side of him. Harry realised that is how he looks sometimes from the outside too. But it surprised him that Eb didn't have excellent self-control, because he assumed that Eb did (partially because he was meant to be older and wiser, and partially because he expected a Senior Council wizard and Blackstaff to handle his emotions better). But Ebeneezer is only a man, only human. Harry just keeps learning the hard way.
I entirely disagree that Eb hasn't earned the right to give advice. He did LONG before Harry knew about their family relationship. He was Harry's mentor and teacher, he more than earned the right. Not to mention, Harry seems to be fine with this by and large, unless of course it goes against what Harry wants. Harry is only human himself. But Harry is learning when to heed advice and when not to. He has mostly improved a lot in this. But he still has some way to go.
I respect you think Eb is going about convincing Harry the wrong way. That's a fair call. But Harry is notoriously stubborn and difficult to convince. And you might remember that one of Harry's main regrets in Christmas Eve was how arrogant he is during Peace Talks and Battle Ground (and how much it cost). I think Eb is just probably the wrong person to convince Harry altogether. Eb would probably better getting someone else to make his argument for him. Like Murphy or Michael. Assuming they agreed.
Mira:
--- Quote ---He might have been mad at Eb but ultimately he eventually accepted him as a good man still, despite his reservations. He didn't realise that Eb wasn't merely morally grey, but also an incredibly savage and violent man at times. He hadn't really seen that side of him. Harry realised that is how he looks sometimes from the outside too. But it surprised him that Eb didn't have excellent self-control, because he assumed that Eb did (partially because he was meant to be older and wiser, and partially because he expected a Senior Council wizard and Blackstaff to handle his emotions better). But Ebeneezer is only a man, only human. Harry just keeps learning the hard way.
--- End quote ---
However he did see it coming, that is why he had Molly make the ring for him. Harry knew, as strong as he is, even with the Winter Knight's mantle, he was no match for Eb pound for pound. He also knew that where Eb was at emotionally, he couldn't be reasoned with safely. And he was right, if it had been him instead of a double of him, he'd be dead. After the fact, to Eb's shock and horror he realized he was out of control, not a good place for the Blackstaff. It hurt, but Harry knew how it would go down, so he had his double fight Eb. There was no time for anything else, Eb couldn't be reasoned with, and yes, Harry still loves him, but Harry also loves Thomas, and meantime the world is going to hell in a hand basket. As Warden of Demonreach, Harry was in a position to at least keep Thomas safe for the moment and at the same time satisfy diplomatic and justice demands. Eb had reached a point where there was no explaining that to him. Which brings us back to family dynamics, Harry and Eb cannot communicate here because both had been withholding the truth from one another for too many years.
Harry loves Thomas, he knows he is a vampire, but he is also his brother. Eb hates vampires, perhaps with good reason, so he thinks a good vampire is a dead vampire. Because he doesn't know the truth, he has all kinds of horrible fantasies as to why Harry wants to save Thomas. When he learns the truth, he cannot handle the shock of any of it. Harry doesn't know the truth as to why his grandfather hates all vampires so telling him who Thomas really is didn't go down so well. Throw in
Eb revealing that he thought it best to ignore both him and his mother until their talents revealed themselves.. No, both are too pissed to listen to reason.
--- Quote ---I entirely disagree that Eb hasn't earned the right to give advice. He did LONG before Harry knew about their family relationship. He was Harry's mentor and teacher, he more than earned the right. Not to mention, Harry seems to be fine with this by and large, unless of course it goes against what Harry wants. Harry is only human himself. But Harry is learning when to heed advice and when not to. He has mostly improved a lot in this. But he still has some way to go.
--- End quote ---
Family dynamics, they do not follow logic my friend. Eb was a revered mentor and teacher who hid the truth about who he really was from Harry. Now he may have had good reasons for that, but it never turns out well when the truth is hidden. It is resented, the reaction is pure emotion, there is no way Harry is going to listen to anything Eb has to say. Harry knows what he has suffered for years because he thought he was an orphan alone in this world.. Sorry but the answer Eb gave for letting that happen isn't going to cut it. Now Harry isn't so pig headed or stupid not to realize that he has to work with Eb in this crisis, he knows he does. However if Eb survives this battle he has a lot of work to do to repair what he fucked up with his daughter and her son. Nor is Harry going to take advice on how to protect his brother or raise his daughter from a man who seemingly didn't give a damn about him or his mother, until Eb can explain it. That hasn't happened yet.
--- Quote ---respect you think Eb is going about convincing Harry the wrong way. That's a fair call. But Harry is notoriously stubborn and difficult to convince. And you might remember that one of Harry's main regrets in Christmas Eve was how arrogant he is during Peace Talks and Battle Ground (and how much it cost). I think Eb is just probably the wrong person to convince Harry altogether. Eb would probably better getting someone else to make his argument for him. Like Murphy or Michael. Assuming they agreed.
--- End quote ---
First of all we don't know yet, what Harry's regrets are at Christmas. I suspect it has more to do with deploying a weapon of mass destruction because that is the only way the Titian can be stopped and the city saved. However that comes at a horrible price, a lot of innocents will could die in the process. Now Truman claimed he never lost a minute of sleep over giving the orders to drop the Bomb, because in the long run it saved more lives than it took. But Harry isn't Truman, deciding life and death on that kind of scale does take a lot of arrogance. The point you are missing I think, is in the end it still comes down to family dynamics.. Oh Eb might be able to logically convince Harry that was the right decision on mass destruction, but Eb the grandfather has a long way to go and a lot of explaining to do before Harry accepts anything he has to say on how to raise his daughter or how to treat his brother.
Oh for the record, I don't think Murphy can help Harry on matters of mass destruction.. It felt good to be hugging her for sure, but it was clear that she had no grasp on what really was at stake. But then again, perhaps it is too much for a mere vanilla human to get her head around.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on September 05, 2020, 01:51:04 AM ---Unless she was like Molly...and had only recently become a Winter Lady. She might not have been in that position long.
--- End quote ---
Yeah but then how was she hanging around with Merlin? Arthurian times are supposed to be 500+ years earlier.
--- Quote --- Eb would probably better getting someone else to make his argument for him. Like Murphy or Michael. Assuming they agreed.
--- End quote ---
But is Eb's argument even right?
Sure, the Council might kick Harry out. But ... so what?
It's been quite a while since they were a real help to Harry (sure, Eb showed up in Changes, but he was at risk too, plus he's family). They backed him up on Accords stuff in WN and SmF (and I think the former was more Ramirez being a friend than official Council support) ... but Harry's still an Accords member as Winter Knight. Surely he could get backing from Winter for Accords matters (I think Harry has a lot more authority with Winterfae than he's allowed himself to use, maybe even allowed himself to realize).
At this point, the Council needs Harry more than Harry needs them (they'd lose any control over Demonreach). If this is a ploy, the right answer might be for Harry to call the bluff.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version