The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

The Red Court, The Fomor, and Could Thomas Have Been?

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Yuillegan:
Mira, I like it. Very interesting idea.

Perhaps Thomas wasn't actually attempting to kill anyone, but was trying to stop the bomb. It would look good if he had been successfull but bad if he was just there at the wrong time when it went off.

Let's say he somehow becomes aware of the plot. He attempts to stop it but fails. However all the Svartalves see is a armoured White Court Vampire right as a bomb goes off.

Perhaps he was set up. Maybe he was given poor information. Or perhaps he was just too late. Regardless, it all goes bad for him.

Mira:

--- Quote ---Perhaps he was set up. Maybe he was given poor information. Or perhaps he was just too late. Regardless, it all goes bad for him.
--- End quote ---

Which brings up yet another question that many of us have asked.  Is Harry jumping to conclusions when he just assumes that Thomas is trying to say Justine because seemingly the name he is trying to say sounds like it starts with a "J"?  On one hand as much as he loves her, he is hurt etc. it is natural that that is what he is saying.  However I find it suspicious that Jim pounds that home three times I believe, not just what Thomas is trying to say, but that Harry almost instantly replies the same way.. In other words he thinks he knows what he is saying, but is he actually trying to listen to what Thomas is trying to say?  He isn't giving it any further thought.

So we don't know a lot of characters outside of Justine who's name begin with "J" or sound like "J."
So Justine is a good choice, but if that is what Thomas is saying, is it because she is on his injured mind or because she is behind what happened to him?  Or is there a new character or a minor character that has a very "J" sounding name who is behind the bomb? We know very few of the Fomor or their henchmen,theTurtlenecks,very few of the Svartsalves for that matter.  Also outside of the Fae, nobody is compelled to tell the truth. As far as that goes, Lara in both Bombshells and in Peace Talks has admitted freely that she'd lie or have to find a way to deny, if asked, if she had anything to do with Thomas being at the embassy.

vultur:

--- Quote from: Mira on August 18, 2020, 01:26:10 PM ---So Harry was right is appears, the Red Court was a cat's paw, for the Fomor, not the Black Court or Outsiders.

--- End quote ---

I agree. At least about the Fomor ... the Outsiders might also be involved; somebody on the Red Court side summoned Outsiders to use against the White Council in the "offscreen" battles in DB and PG.

I kind of think both the Fomor and the Outsiders believe they are using the other group as a distraction. So "coordinating their efforts" (as we see in PT with the attack on the Gates at the same time as Ethniu shows up) but not really "on the same side" in terms of long-term goals.

My further WAG is that actions Harry attributes to the "Black Council" are a combination of Nemesis (in favor of the Outsiders) and the Circle (probably working with the Fomor, given Cowl's "mildew" gates).


--- Quote from: ClintACK on August 18, 2020, 06:26:36 PM ---Depends who he fought. Thomas beat the heck out of the fomor mooks, but Etri was even more impressive making Froggy look like a minor irritant.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on August 18, 2020, 06:58:23 PM ---That’s the issue, if Etri is a major hitter how did this happen in the first place?

--- End quote ---

Eh... Etri's impressive, but Thomas is pretty deadly physically. Given how he performed against Black Court Vampires and a whole mob of ghouls when a lot less well-fed, I don't think there are many things on a human-like scale* that could easily defeat Thomas on a purely physical level -- not just win, but win without a serious risk of being injured in the process.

*The only one I can think of is the loup-garou. Sue the zombie T-rex and probably Tiny the Gruff, yeah, but they are on a whole different scale.

Now, a real power could just shut down Thomas without it ever coming to a physical fight, but I don't think Etri is even close to that level. Probably more on par with the Redcap or Cat Sith than with Mab.

The svartalves seem to be primarily about craftsmanship. They're probably really deadly with all their weapons and equipment ... but, like wizards, they need prep.

Mira:

--- Quote ---I agree. At least about the Fomor ... the Outsiders might also be involved; somebody on the Red Court side summoned Outsiders to use against the White Council in the "offscreen" battles in DB and PG.

--- End quote ---

I wouldn't doubt it, though I think the Fomor are cat's paws of the Outsiders. 

--- Quote ---My further WAG is that actions Harry attributes to the "Black Council" are a combination of Nemesis (in favor of the Outsiders) and the Circle (probably working with the Fomor, given Cowl's "mildew" gates).
--- End quote ---

I agree with the addition of mortal dupes who do the summoning.

--- Quote ---Eh... Etri's impressive, but Thomas is pretty deadly physically. Given how he performed against Black Court Vampires and a whole mob of ghouls when a lot less well-fed, I don't think there are many things on a human-like scale* that could easily defeat Thomas on a purely physical level -- not just win, but win without a serious risk of being injured in the process.

*The only one I can think of is the loup-garou. Sue the zombie T-rex and probably Tiny the Gruff, yeah, but they are on a whole different scale.

Now, a real power could just shut down Thomas without it ever coming to a physical fight, but I don't think Etri is even close to that level. Probably more on par with the Redcap or Cat Sith than with Mab.

The svartalves seem to be primarily about craftsmanship. They're probably really deadly with all their weapons and equipment ... but, like wizards, they need prep.
--- End quote ---

Here is a thought, if there is an insider, what if he or she summoned an Outsider to help take down
Thomas?  If one got in his head he hasn't the star born tools like Harry has to fight it.  Take Thomas out mentally and the physical vamp thing might not be that hard to take down.

Conspiracy Theorist:
Whamps are all offence as regards whammying, we only see two Whamps seriously go at each other mentally when Lara takes on Papa Raith. They may have even less defence training than the old school wizards, and Thomas is young he may not have developed any sort of mental toughness like old wizards.

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