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The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2020, 06:39:07 PM ---I have to go back and get the exact quote from Grave Peril, but Michael said nothing about changing,he was explicit about destroying it by Mavra.  We are also talking about two different Swords here. 

--- End quote ---
and what does our mortal philosopher say about destruction? We're talking about information michael not only wouldn't have been exposed to, but that was likely intentionally suppressed by his church handlers. It's not something he'd immediately believe is possible. Mavra coulda smashed the sword to bits, but as we know it'd still have been the sword waiting to be reforged. Killing an innocent has a much greater metaphysical meaning to it.
Talking about different swords doesn't matter, they each hold a grace.

Mira:

--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on August 22, 2020, 08:17:49 PM ---and what does our mortal philosopher say about destruction? We're talking about information michael not only wouldn't have been exposed to, but that was likely intentionally suppressed by his church handlers. It's not something he'd immediately believe is possible. Mavra coulda smashed the sword to bits, but as we know it'd still have been the sword waiting to be reforged. Killing an innocent has a much greater metaphysical meaning to it.
Talking about different swords doesn't matter, they each hold a grace.

--- End quote ---

There is a huge difference between merely smashing a Holy Sword,  that is what happened to the Sword of Faith, and unmaking a Holy Sword, which is what killing an innocent with it would do.

page 271 Grave Peril paper back

--- Quote ---Michael drew a sudden breath.
"What's going on?" Susan blurted.
"The blood of innocents," he snarled.  "The Sword is vulnerable. She means to unmake it.  Harry we cannot allow it." 
--- End quote ---

vultur:
I don't think the Swords do hold a grace in the sense that Uriel lent his grace to Michael in SG.

I think they are powered by an angel in the same way that the Denarian coins contain a fallen angel, except the good angels powering the Swords probably aren't imprisoned but just doing it to act in the mortal world without violating the "rules" (the Denarians' Fallen were basically kicked out of Hell/imprisoned because Lucifer was afraid they'd try to take over Hell, per WOJ).

IE, the grace is still "attached to" the angel, so I don't think the risk of Falling in SG applies here. That was IMO a very unusual situation.

And I am not sure the "unmaking" and "breaking" are actually that different. I don't think pure physical force could break a Sword unless it's made vulnerable; but I don't think Mavra could have destroyed Amoracchius forever, it would probably just need to be reforged.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2020, 10:12:29 PM ---There is a huge difference between merely smashing a Holy Sword,  that is what happened to the Sword of Faith, and unmaking a Holy Sword, which is what killing an innocent with it would do.

page 271 Grave Peril paper back

--- End quote ---
yea.... That's what I just said... Destroying the sword does not destroy the energy of the sword, just changes it.
Pure physical force can break the sword when it's vulnerable, still not the same as unmaking it. If the metaphysical event as the crucifixion gave the swords their significance, then a comparable event can change their nature.
The three swords are likely the three Watchers btw... The clue everyone seemed to miss from TC, is there is another supernatural restaurant in Egypt, same place esper was last active. One sword, one grace, one watcher based near where the sword was most active,
*Idk if you got the mortal philosopher reference, but you can't destroy energy, you can only change it, hence unmaking the sword is not simply destroying it.

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