The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
666 years and what follows - The Cycle
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: vultur on August 01, 2020, 10:50:29 PM ---Yeah, exactly. Uriel isn't allowed to go disintegrate all the Outsiders, so he can't. But I don't think there are any Outsiders on the level of angels/archangels, or even the Faerie Mothers, or they'd just smash right through Winter's army at the Gates.
--- End quote ---
In the case that there were, though, perhaps Creation needs someone with good eyes keeping a lookout, someone that could summon aid. Sounds like a good job for a Gatekeeper to me.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: vultur on August 01, 2020, 10:50:29 PM ---In the books, or in a WoJ? Can you point me to something? That would be interesting to see.
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I couldn't find anything. I think there was something about Harry would be upset with Uriel if he knew what Uriel had done.
There is one WoJ about Outsiders looking a particular way based on which universe they're trying to get into. This leads me to believe that there's only one Outside.
I don't see what summoning has to do with defeating all the Outsiders at the Gates.
I just think Jim is big on balance between opposing forces, and not just with the Faerie Courts.
I don't think there's even a clear leaning as to what's actually going on between Creation and Outside. I don't think this is even something that ever has to be answered for Jim to tell a full and complete story, so I don't know if we'll ever get a definitive answer.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on August 03, 2020, 10:16:32 PM ---I couldn't find anything. I think there was something about Harry would be upset with Uriel if he knew what Uriel had done.
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Wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't Bob say he was responsible for the Plague of the Death of the Firstborn? Uriel's "on the side of the angels" (heh) cosmically, but he's a scary guy.
--- Quote ---There is one WoJ about Outsiders looking a particular way based on which universe they're trying to get into. This leads me to believe that there's only one Outside.
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I agree. I think it's been said that parallel universes or whatever (the universes making up the multiverse) are connected through the Nevernever.
So yeah I think there's just one Outside, beyond the Nevernever.
--- Quote ---I don't see what summoning has to do with defeating all the Outsiders at the Gates.
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I just meant that since we see a bunch of Outsiders in the mortal world in CD, a real victory for the Outsiders has to be more than just getting some troops through the Gates. Because the presence of a bunch of Outsiders led by He-Who-Walks-Before didn't really mess up reality noticeably.
I don't know if it's a matter of a "critical mass" of Outsiders needed within reality to destroy it (override it by their alien nature?) or if there's some specific thing they have to do to win... but I think there's something.
--- Quote ---I don't think this is even something that ever has to be answered for Jim to tell a full and complete story, so I don't know if we'll ever get a definitive answer.
--- End quote ---
Maybe not all the background details, but I think we'll know a lot more.
The last book title is planned to be "Empty Night" which Mother Summer uses in CD to describe an Outsider victory.
So I imagine the BAT will end with Outsiders breaking into reality and Harry will have to lead the defense of Reality and do some kind of Starborn thing to kick them back out, or imprison them in Demonreach, or something.
(Mab says at one point "the stars will fall from the sky when Mab keeps not her word" or something to that effect. I'm sort of thinking Mab will be forced to break her word in some way, which will weaken her to the point where she is killed and her Mantle destroyed. Winter falls and the Outsiders break in, and the BAT kicks off.)
The_Sibelis:
I'd like to think so too. Pretty sure Jim said as much concerning the outside, but that they manifest differently depending upon the reality. Imo because different things exist to reflect or different things have been destroyed for them to manifest as.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: vultur on August 04, 2020, 06:03:51 AM ---I think it's been said that parallel universes or whatever (the universes making up the multiverse) are connected through the Nevernever.
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Jim's often said, or strongly implied, that you can get to Tavi's world (or whatever) in the Nevernever. I've never heard him say anything about how one gets to a parallel universe. I'm of no opinion on how one travels to parallel universes. We'll get something in 2022, hopefully.
--- Quote from: vultur on August 04, 2020, 06:03:51 AM ---I just meant that since we see a bunch of Outsiders in the mortal world in CD, a real victory for the Outsiders has to be more than just getting some troops through the Gates. Because the presence of a bunch of Outsiders led by He-Who-Walks-Before didn't really mess up reality noticeably.
I don't know if it's a matter of a "critical mass" of Outsiders needed within reality to destroy it (override it by their alien nature?) or if there's some specific thing they have to do to win... but I think there's something.
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Yeah. It might just be wrecking up the place so much that the Gates can't be defended, or it's just easier to destroy the place from the inside.
--- Quote from: vultur on August 04, 2020, 06:03:51 AM ---Maybe not all the background details, but I think we'll know a lot more.
--- End quote ---
I agree. Some things will be pretty clear, and some things will be argued over (including the pretty clear stuff ;)) for as long as people like us are reading his books.
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