The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

What if Eb is 100% correct about everything?

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Yuillegan:
Oh, I think he is. I think Harry doesn't yet appreciate the danger of the White Court. I also think Eb is made to look crazy in order to direct the readers into questioning what he is saying. When you take out who Eb is and just read the sentences (as though someone like Uriel were saying them) suddenly the White Court and Thomas etc look very shady.

KurtinStGeorge:

--- Quote from: morriswalters on July 27, 2020, 10:02:52 PM ---Lara may be dirty and she was draining Thomas rather than feeding him.  Who knows? Her first favor might have been getting Mab to shield Justine from the babies demon.  Maybe she wanted Thomas to die on the island and was pissed because Harry put him in a cell and saved his life.  This book is such a hot mess it's hard to decide. Do we know what her first favor was?

--- End quote ---

So that would mean that Lara feigned surprise when Harry told her that Justine was pregnant and that she allowed Harry to strike her during their practice duel in order to give credence to her deception.  Lying is something Lara could do, but faking being surprised is a bit more difficult.  I'm not saying it's impossible, just that without further evidence it lacks credibility. 

I'm going to be very interested in the first few chapters of Battle Ground because with only half the story we (and by extension Harry) are missing some vital clues.  I'm also going to waiting for Harry to stop reacting and start thinking like a detective again.  For me, one of the most frustrating elements of Peace Talks was that Harry was mostly stuck reacting to events rather thinking them through.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 28, 2020, 07:19:54 AM ---Oh, I think he is. I think Harry doesn't yet appreciate the danger of the White Court. I also think Eb is made to look crazy in order to direct the readers into questioning what he is saying. When you take out who Eb is and just read the sentences (as though someone like Uriel were saying them) suddenly the White Court and Thomas etc look very shady.

--- End quote ---
Harry knows exactly how dangerous the white court is but he thinks Thomas is worth fighting for despite the risk just like Molly was worth fighting for. The white council is more risk averse and that is why it has strict rules about who is human and who to execute. Better safe than sorry.

But in many respects Harry is more influenced by Michael than by Ebenezer.

Yuillegan:
But does he? It seems to me that Harry is making the error of assuming he has all the facts and understands them. With incomplete data it's difficult to really predict anything. The less data you have, the less accurate your prediction is likely to be.

Eb's warning is essentially that; you cannot expect the WCV to act reliably because they are essentially unreliable. Harry is as guilty of confirmation bias as anyone, and he has less information than Eb does on the White Court.

However, I will grant that everything Eb said and was warning about was prior to his knowledge of Thomas as his own grandson. He obviously is also rather racist when it comes to them so it's clear it's hard for him to see them as anything but.

Harry may be more similar in his values to Michael, but his behavior overall has been more similar to Eb's. It's only recently that has changed. Regardless, his values have little to do with his ability to predict the White Court.

The whole point is that they are very good at getting humans to let their guard down. It's not all come hithers and mental whammys. They only seem to be that obvious because when it comes to mortals that's easy for them. But in terms of the long game, I think Harry underestimates them.

Harry's main ability to be unpredictable is his wild card nature. But in saying that, I would say there are many fans who would be able to reliably predict his behavior. Not everything of course. Not even Jim always knows what Harry will do. That's sort of the point. But many actions Harry has taken have been predicted. Most of his general behavior in the early books is fairly predictable. Especially when you look at the whole. Of course we all get surprised now and again. In fact, it's highly likely that Jim builds certain patterns in Dresden's behavior in order to be able to surprise us.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 29, 2020, 07:58:28 AM ---But does he? It seems to me that Harry is making the error of assuming he has all the facts and understands them. With incomplete data it's difficult to really predict anything. The less data you have, the less accurate your prediction is likely to be.

Eb's warning is essentially that; you cannot expect the WCV to act reliably because they are essentially unreliable. Harry is as guilty of confirmation bias as anyone, and he has less information than Eb does on the White Court.

--- End quote ---
He probably has more. He knows what his mother’s death curse did for example. He has seen club zero for what it is. Ebenezer probably does not know about the true love protection either. Because of the illusion and what was told he thought Harry was making out with Lara and that triggered an even more violent reaction.

--- Quote ---However, I will grant that everything Eb said and was warning about was prior to his knowledge of Thomas as his own grandson. He obviously is also rather racist when it comes to them so it's clear it's hard for him to see them as anything but.

--- End quote ---
He is probably racist with all things not human. There is a racist streak in the white council though it is not just based on some superficial colorings.

--- Quote ---
Harry may be more similar in his values to Michael, but his behavior overall has been more similar to Eb's. It's only recently that has changed. Regardless, his values have little to do with his ability to predict the White Court.

--- End quote ---
He must have a serious reason to take the risk but he is prepared to do so. Probably because he was a warlock himself. A white court vampire is not that different from a highly specialized warlock.

But they have all killed.

--- Quote ---The whole point is that they are very good at getting humans to let their guard down. It's not all come hithers and mental whammys. They only seem to be that obvious because when it comes to mortals that's easy for them. But in terms of the long game, I think Harry underestimates them.

--- End quote ---
You can always Think so but he also is always on his guard with them. He just is not in a place we’re he can always avoid them.



--- Quote ---Harry's main ability to be unpredictable is his wild card nature. But in saying that, I would say there are many fans who would be able to reliably predict his behavior. Not everything of course. Not even Jim always knows what Harry will do. That's sort of the point. But many actions Harry has taken have been predicted. Most of his general behavior in the early books is fairly predictable. Especially when you look at the whole. Of course we all get surprised now and again. In fact, it's highly likely that Jim builds certain patterns in Dresden's behavior in order to be able to surprise us.

--- End quote ---
Without patters people can not even try to predict you. But there is a reason Karin finds it much easier to predict Harry than Nicodemus does.

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