The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What if Eb is 100% correct about everything?
Arjan:
The problem with Ebenezer is not that he is right or wrong. The problem is that he can not have a decent chat about it.
morriswalters:
No person that you know, under almost any condition, would break an accused murderer from out of jail. It isn't a rational response. You can never know the mind of another or know their guilt or innocence. And if you did it, you could expect to end up as an outlaw, even if he was later proven to be not guilty. Family is important, but Harry has more at stake with a daughter, then a single man. This is all well and good if Harry's destiny is to become King of the world, but kinda shortsighted if not.
I don't know what Jim is trying to accomplish but his motivations are kinda lame. I could see going to the wall while Thomas hangs out in a cell. Instead he has the Swart whatevers execute Thomas with a slow death, even though they say he is awaiting judgement. It's just plain stupid and doesn't hang together very well.
And why is Harry all of a sudden having abandonment issues? He's picked a piss poor time to get all angsty about being left in a lurch. Hell Thomas should be angry, his mother left him after making sure he was a serial killer by birth.
Putting that aside for the moment, having Thomas suffer the pain of all the many that he has hurt has been something that has been needed. As sympathetic as he is he has committed murder multiple times and being Harry's brother doesn't make him fit company for a child. Eb is right, down the line and Harry is wrong. Lara is a 1000 year old murderess who has had to have killed hundreds. And even she admits she can't always control it. Harry and Jim are in a fantasy. In the real world Lara and Thomas would be hunted by their prey and exterminated.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on July 29, 2020, 04:55:40 PM ---No person that you know, under almost any condition, would break an accused murderer from out of jail. It isn't a rational response.
--- End quote ---
That basically depends on your trust in the law and the state behind it. It would be pretty normal behavior if you live in a failed state and your family/clan/tribe is more important than who is a the moment oppressing you and yours.
Or it depends on the nature of the state. Or actually states because what Lara is really doing is freeing a captive from another state. One of her people is accused of murder in another state and hold captive in a third one.
This could be seen as an act of war but even in the real world it would probably not result in a war but in a diplomatic crisis that can be resolved.
--- Quote ---You can never know the mind of another or know their guilt or innocence. And if you did it, you could expect to end up as an outlaw, even if he was later proven to be not guilty.
--- End quote ---
I think you are thinking modern state here. Mab knows what he is doing and as long as he does not embarrass her he will probably have both Lara and Mab supporting her.
--- Quote ---Family is important, but Harry has more at stake with a daughter, then a single man. This is all well and good if Harry's destiny is to become King of the world, but kinda shortsighted if not.
--- End quote ---
There may be fallout for Harry but strictly speaking the situation is much like Skin Game, it is primarily Lara’s problem.
Our legal view of the situation is distorted because of Harry’s emotional investment in it but he had to help Lara because of what Mab did.
But really Harry had no choice. Harry wanted to do it so he did not see it that way but he had to help.
--- Quote ---I don't know what Jim is trying to accomplish but his motivations are kinda lame. I could see going to the wall while Thomas hangs out in a cell. Instead he has the Swart whatevers execute Thomas with a slow death, even though they say he is awaiting judgement. It's just plain stupid and doesn't hang together very well.
--- End quote ---
You can not really expect them to feed his hunger especially in his current state and for all we know he was very likely already far gone when he attacked.
--- Quote ---And why is Harry all of a sudden having abandonment issues?
--- End quote ---
Sudden :D
--- Quote ---He's picked a piss poor time to get all angsty about being left in a lurch. Hell Thomas should be angry, his mother left him after making sure he was a serial killer by birth.
--- End quote ---
We do not know the circumstances. She might not have had that much of a choice.
--- Quote ---Putting that aside for the moment, having Thomas suffer the pain of all the many that he has hurt has been something that has been needed. As sympathetic as he is he has committed murder multiple times and being Harry's brother doesn't make him fit company for a child. Eb is right, down the line and Harry is wrong. Lara is a 1000 year old murderess who has had to have killed hundreds. And even she admits she can't always control it. Harry and Jim are in a fantasy. In the real world Lara and Thomas would be hunted by their prey and exterminated.
--- End quote ---
And rapists. Being irresistible by magical means might be an adolescent fantasy but I think the law would see it differently if they knew how it worked.
Of course and that is why they don’t want the masquerade to end.
Mira:
--- Quote ---No person that you know, under almost any condition, would break an accused murderer from out of jail. It isn't a rational response. You can never know the mind of another or know their guilt or innocence. And if you did it, you could expect to end up as an outlaw, even if he was later proven to be not guilty. Family is important, but Harry has more at stake with a daughter, then a single man. This is all well and good if Harry's destiny is to become King of the world, but kinda shortsighted if not.
--- End quote ---
In the real world? No. Well, maybe if you knew for a fact that they were innocent and were in danger of dying in jail. Having said that, very few families have the means or the power to orchestrate a jail break. So no, it isn't rational, except Harry is Warden of Demonreach, that is where he deposited Thomas in stasis, he isn't going anywhere. In a sense you might say he merely transferred the prisoner to where he thinks he will be safe from being executed without a fair trial. If he is as irrational or really short sighted as you suggest, he'd have just turned Thomas over to Lara. Let her see to it that he gets fed and recovered, do you doubt that she has the connections, even if they could track him, that she couldn't keep him safe for some time?
--- Quote ---I don't know what Jim is trying to accomplish but his motivations are kinda lame. I could see going to the wall while Thomas hangs out in a cell. Instead he has the Swart whatevers execute Thomas with a slow death, even though they say he is awaiting judgement. It's just plain stupid and doesn't hang together very well.
--- End quote ---
It is my least favorite aspect of the whole book, which is too bad because it takes up a huge percentage of Peace Talks. All the while what do we know about Thomas? Justine is pregnant, Thomas is worried about the Hunger eating her while she carries the child.. Then BOOM! Thomas attempts an assassination, someone dies as a result who is a friend of Harry's. Thomas is beaten with in an inch of his life, which is weird when you think about it, normally if he is topped off he is super human and that sort of thing doesn't happen. The the rest of the book is dominated by the efforts to spring Thomas, which is really a huge distraction. In a sense unless there is stuff in the next book that we don't know about, that whole story line really dumbs down the whole book in my opinion. That could be just sour grapes on my part because I am disappointed. I was hoping for some real political fireworks between the Accord members before the big Fomor entrance.
--- Quote ---And why is Harry all of a sudden having abandonment issues? He's picked a piss poor time to get all angsty about being left in a lurch. Hell Thomas should be angry, his mother left him after making sure he was a serial killer by birth.
--- End quote ---
He has always had those, but suddenly he gets a severe case of a wizard childhood illness? Another thing that was more of a distraction than anything else. Not to say my opinion could change if it leads to some reveal or another.
--- Quote ---Putting that aside for the moment, having Thomas suffer the pain of all the many that he has hurt has been something that has been needed. As sympathetic as he is he has committed murder multiple times and being Harry's brother doesn't make him fit company for a child. Eb is right, down the line and Harry is wrong. Lara is a 1000 year old murderess who has had to have killed hundreds. And even she admits she can't always control it. Harry and Jim are in a fantasy. In the real world Lara and Thomas would be hunted by their prey and exterminated.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, well, I am thinking back to the end of Turn Coat where after his stay with Shaggy, Thomas said Lara was right, and was going full White Court. He wasn't even attempting to be human anymore, when he looks at people all he sees is kine.. He was very cold and matter of fact about it too to Harry. Now, being with Justine may have mitigated that somewhat, but he was with her then.
ClintACK:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on July 29, 2020, 04:55:40 PM ---No person that you know, under almost any condition, would break an accused murderer from out of jail. It isn't a rational response. You can never know the mind of another or know their guilt or innocence. And if you did it, you could expect to end up as an outlaw, even if he was later proven to be not guilty. Family is important, but Harry has more at stake with a daughter, then a single man. This is all well and good if Harry's destiny is to become King of the world, but kinda shortsighted if not.
--- End quote ---
Really good point -- especially given that the book opens with Harry giving Thomas exactly that lecture.
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