The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is Lara's problem? [PT Spoilers!]
vultur:
--- Quote from: Grifter on July 27, 2020, 01:26:36 AM ---But that's what I'm saying. Her allowing herself to have a weak spot is surprising to me.
--- End quote ---
It's only "allowing" herself if she has a choice. I doubt if she does. She can't just give herself new powers without paying a cost that would be unacceptable to her - Lara wants to be in charge, not to be in debt/in thrall to some other power (like a Fallen in a Denarian coin). Working with Odin/Monoc Securities is just a business relationship, she can still be in charge of her own.
--- Quote ---Even if she does have a reservoir limit, I'm struggling to believe that her reservoir is so low. She fed Thomas for an hour and it wasn't enough to put a dent in his hunger, but it drained her?
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Thomas was really damaged, enough to be non-functional/near-death.
If Thomas's Hunger is at least as strong as hers, she probably couldn't transfer enough energy to get him back to normal without reducing herself to non-functional/near-death, even if it was a 100% efficient transfer.
And it might not be efficient, because Thomas was too out of it to really feed - and the White Court probably aren't set up to give energy away (as somebody else pointed out).
--- Quote ---If Harry can create rings that store kinetic energy, and can create a belt buckle that will store energy to increase his physical attributes, and Lara has seen at least some of those in action, then I would honestly expect her to find a contractor to help her find a way to have an additional reservoir, artificial or not, to supplement her.
--- End quote ---
Do we know that this would actually work?
The kind of energy the White Court feed on seems more personal and less "magic physics" than what Harry uses, it might not be able to just be stored in an inanimate battery.
Otherwise Harry could just have done a spell to "top up" Thomas... with time to do thaumaturgy, he could probably draw much more energy than Lara could provide. Since Lara didn't suggest that, I think it probably takes feeding on a living being.
I don't think the Whampires can just get out of their inherent limitations that way, any more than the most powerful Rampires or Blampires could avoid drinking blood.
Grifter:
--- Quote from: vultur on July 27, 2020, 03:42:11 AM ---It's only "allowing" herself if she has a choice. I doubt if she does. She can't just give herself new powers without paying a cost that would be unacceptable to her - Lara wants to be in charge, not to be in debt/in thrall to some other power (like a Fallen in a Denarian coin). Working with Odin/Monoc Securities is just a business relationship, she can still be in charge of her own.
Thomas was really damaged, enough to be non-functional/near-death.
If Thomas's Hunger is at least as strong as hers, she probably couldn't transfer enough energy to get him back to normal without reducing herself to non-functional/near-death, even if it was a 100% efficient transfer.
And it might not be efficient, because Thomas was too out of it to really feed - and the White Court probably aren't set up to give energy away (as somebody else pointed out).
Do we know that this would actually work?
The kind of energy the White Court feed on seems more personal and less "magic physics" than what Harry uses, it might not be able to just be stored in an inanimate battery.
Otherwise Harry could just have done a spell to "top up" Thomas... with time to do thaumaturgy, he could probably draw much more energy than Lara could provide. Since Lara didn't suggest that, I think it probably takes feeding on a living being.
I don't think the Whampires can just get out of their inherent limitations that way, any more than the most powerful Rampires or Blampires could avoid drinking blood.
--- End quote ---
She wouldn't have to sell her soul. She'd have to trade like she did with Mab, or buy like she did with Monoc.
As for the backup reservoir, I'm not saying it'd be easy to make on the fly, which is the only way Harry ever makes anything. But given that we've seen several sorts of magic power, as well as soul power and love power, be permanently or extendedly imbued into objects, it stands to reason that there should be a way to artificially store lust power as well.
Theoretically it wouldn't have to be that much different than what Harry already did. The belt buckle wasn't kinetic energy. It was a magic reservoir.
--- Quote --- I touched my left hand to my belt buckle and whispered, “Fortius.”
Power rushed into the pit of my stomach, a sudden tide of hot, living energy, nitrous for the body, mind, and soul. Raw life radiated out into my bones, running riot through my limbs. My confusion and weariness and pain vanished as swiftly as darkness before the sunrise.
This was no simple adrenaline boost, either, though that was a part of it. Call it chi or mana or one of thousand other names for it—it was pure magic, the very essence of life energy itself. It poured into me from the reservoir I’d created in the silver of the buckle. My heart suddenly overflowed with excitement, my thoughts with hope, confidence, and eager anticipation, and if I had a personal soundtrack to my life it would have been playing Ode to Joy while a stadium of Harry fans did the wave. It was all I could do to stop myself from bursting into laughter or song.
--- End quote ---
If Harry, an amateur wizard in his twenties with little to no formal training, can manage to do that, then I don't see a problem with an older, wiser with wizard or mage or Monoc contractor doing something similar, but with a focus on storing a supply of lust energy. It could just take a little from each feeding to keep it topped off.
And honestly, I could see where she might take it a step further. Give a white pearl or diamond or opal to every Raith that will be their personal reservoir, and link them together so her larger gem would get a slice from each feeding. Then she could strengthen her own people and gain power from them.
It'd just be combining things we've already seen in the series.
As for it having to be from a living being, we know magic comes from living beings, but can be stored in inanimate objects. And we've seen a wamp feed on energy from another now, sans the sex, so we know it doesn't have to be just that for Raiths. Even if there's an inherent loss in storing and tapping, it'd be better than just shrugging at the idea that she'd find herself physically challenged to the point that she'd be tapped out and helpless.
vultur:
--- Quote from: Grifter on July 27, 2020, 04:56:43 AM ---She wouldn't have to sell her soul. She'd have to trade like she did with Mab, or buy like she did with Monoc.
--- End quote ---
Trading favors is one thing, the Fae do that all the time. Hiring mercenaries likewise. But the only ways we've seen to get a big power upgrade beyond your "basic type of supernatural being" involve a lot deeper commitment or transform you - becoming Summer or Winter Knight, taking up a Denarian coin, performing an ascension rite/Darkhallow. That sort of thing.
Lord Raith probably did something of this sort, making some kind of Outsider pact with HWWB to get his anti-magic shield. Obviously we don't have any details though...
I don't think that this is a limitation that could be gotten around with equipment, or Harry would have done something like it for Thomas. The White Court's need to feed on life force is pretty fundamental. It would take a radical transformation of Lara's nature IMO.
--- Quote ---If Harry, an amateur wizard in his twenties with little to no formal training, can manage to do that, then I don't see a problem with an older, wiser with wizard or mage or Monoc contractor doing something similar, but with a focus on storing a supply of lust energy. It could just take a little from each feeding to keep it topped off.
--- End quote ---
Only if "lust energy" can be stored in that way. I don't think it can.
Or, rather, I think there isn't really any such thing as "lust energy" in the Dresdenverse. I think the White Court are using emotions as a conduit to draw life force energy. (The Houses can switch over -- Madrigal Raith learned to feed from fear. So it's not locked specifically into lust, despair, or whatever.)
It seems to be a more general process in the Dresdenverse - the phobophages/fetches from PG do something similar, for example.
--- Quote ---As for it having to be from a living being, we know magic comes from living beings, but can be stored in inanimate objects. And we've seen a wamp feed on energy from another now, sans the sex, so we know it doesn't have to be just that for Raiths.
--- End quote ---
I think the problem isn't the kind of energy. It's the access to it, the "conduit", which requires emotions. An enchanted item doesn't have emotions, so I don't think the White Court's Hunger could access energy from it.
Grifter:
--- Quote from: vultur on July 27, 2020, 09:33:56 AM ---Trading favors is one thing, the Fae do that all the time. Hiring mercenaries likewise. But the only ways we've seen to get a big power upgrade beyond your "basic type of supernatural being" involve a lot deeper commitment or transform you - becoming Summer or Winter Knight, taking up a Denarian coin, performing an ascension rite/Darkhallow. That sort of thing.
Lord Raith probably did something of this sort, making some kind of Outsider pact with HWWB to get his anti-magic shield. Obviously we don't have any details though...
I don't think that this is a limitation that could be gotten around with equipment, or Harry would have done something like it for Thomas. The White Court's need to feed on life force is pretty fundamental. It would take a radical transformation of Lara's nature IMO.
Only if "lust energy" can be stored in that way. I don't think it can.
Or, rather, I think there isn't really any such thing as "lust energy" in the Dresdenverse. I think the White Court are using emotions as a conduit to draw life force energy. (The Houses can switch over -- Madrigal Raith learned to feed from fear. So it's not locked specifically into lust, despair, or whatever.)
It seems to be a more general process in the Dresdenverse - the phobophages/fetches from PG do something similar, for example.
I think the problem isn't the kind of energy. It's the access to it, the "conduit", which requires emotions. An enchanted item doesn't have emotions, so I don't think the White Court's Hunger could access energy from it.
--- End quote ---
In SF Harry describes the lake house as being saturated in lust and fear and hate due to the magics worked there, because of the method used to empower the drug. Even unintentionally, emotional energy is imbued in a thing.
And in the scene I quoted from BR, the belt buckle energy invokes an emotional response in Harry.
I haven't seen anything that would suggest it isn't possible, other than 'we haven't seen it be done'.
And remember, the method proposed would be reducing the amount absorbed during the feeding, which is not something that your typical Wamp would want to do, and not something that would help Thomas given his already limited feeding restrictions (doesn't kill, only sips).
vultur:
But on another line of thought... what if there's something wrong with Lara?
There are a lot of highly suspicious things about Thomas in PT. To the point that I'd tend to think that "Thomas" is not actually Thomas, and he's conveniently (posing as?*) too beat up to talk so Harry can't tell that he doesn't have Thomas's personality or knowledge.
*I think a Goodman Grey-level shapeshifter could fake that without actually being physically impaired.
But he's able to take energy from Lara, and one would think Lara would notice something 'off' - even if the physical duplication was perfect, surely the White Court vampire powers wouldn't duplicate exactly (sure, a naagloshii or fetch can feed on fear, so the power may be vaguely similar, but...)
But - if Lara is "mind-whammied" by fake-Thomas, we can't necessarily know that her report of what happened is accurate. And that might also lead her to attack Harry physically when she should have known that was a near-certain loss one way or another (even without Demonreach).
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