The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy
Mira:
--- Quote ---A real viking warrior would. Her current course leads directly to walhalla. This is not stupid if it is what you want. It is about what you think important.
--- End quote ---
How nice for her, but if she takes lives with her because physically she isn't up to a full battle.. If that is what is important to her, so much for the vision back in Blood Rites Harry of her as an avenging angel.
--- Quote ---She wants to help, she wants to experience, she wants to live even if that could mean a shorter life. That is not stupid, that is just different priorities.
--- End quote ---
That's pretty selfish when she could be saving lives and being the weak link in a battle could cost lives.. It isn't about her life, it is about those around her.
--- Quote ---esides Harry would have messed it up already without her.
--- End quote ---
That is neither here nor there as they say...
Oracle of IHOP:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 19, 2020, 07:17:25 PM --- Yup, that is her flaw and her sin, that is what got her body in it's present shape to begin with. She took pride in her judgement verses that of the Almighty, got not only a Sword broken but her body as well.
A good Viking warrior wouldn't do stupid.. Her present course is stupid.. Harry knows, he also knows he cannot stop her, he also knows how it will end..
--- End quote ---
Perhaps she knows how she wants to go out?
A lot of people who have been fighting a long time, including people I served with, would much rather go out feet first. When you have been in the life long enough it sort of limits your options in ways people who have never been there cannot understand.
Fighting is what she knows. She fought to protect Chicago - her home. She fights to protect Harry. Murphy fights to protect what she loves and is willing to risk or even sacrifice her life to do so.
No greater love . . .
Wolfeyes:
Before this book, I was leaning against the Murphy->Valkyrie route but Murphy's priorities and thinking makes me think that even IF she doesn't go that way, she's more than primed to continue to be aligned with that group in some way. It's like Arjan says about Molly getting primed to be aligned with the Fae.
Murphy's always been respected as a warrior and for her heroic spirit. Freydis doesn't go "Wow Murphy you're so dumb and useless and you're just going to get yourself killed or weigh Harry down lol". The one acknowledgement we get is Murphy proving herself to be a warrior in their eyes and being called a Warrior by a Valkyrie herself. Her path might not be right for some people (or some readers), but it's a path acknowledged by the narrative to be a valid one.
In another story, sure, those traits would possibly be setup to something tragic and Bad. Within PT and the Dresden-verse, the narrative respects Murphy for it and it's pretty unlikely the narrative will suddenly turn around and go Murphy's just selfish and stupid, especially when she continues to contribute in significant ways to what's going on than if she'd just stayed in her house and healed. If she goes, it won't be because Oh No, Hubris — it'll likely be She Did the Right thing.
But I doubt Jim will just off her for cheap angst, either, at least not permanently at this point. Jim's usually not trigger happy for the sake of it and is pretty good at finding other ways to make use of characters (Michael and iirc he acknowledged somewhere Molly could've gotten the shank at some point before she developed the way she did).
Mira:
--- Quote from: Oracle of IHOP on July 19, 2020, 10:09:07 PM ---Perhaps she knows how she wants to go out?
A lot of people who have been fighting a long time, including people I served with, would much rather go out feet first. When you have been in the life long enough it sort of limits your options in ways people who have never been there cannot understand.
Fighting is what she knows. She fought to protect Chicago - her home. She fights to protect Harry. Murphy fights to protect what she loves and is willing to risk or even sacrifice her life to do so.
No greater love . . .
--- End quote ---
I get all of that, but what about the defenseless? Does it come down to glory? No glory it guarding some paranet members, something she could do well considering her physical condition. But by all means go for glory..
--- Quote ---Murphy's always been respected as a warrior and for her heroic spirit. Freydis doesn't go "Wow Murphy you're so dumb and useless and you're just going to get yourself killed or weigh Harry down lol". The one acknowledgement we get is Murphy proving herself to be a warrior in their eyes and being called a Warrior by a Valkyrie herself. Her path might not be right for some people (or some readers), but it's a path acknowledged by the narrative to be a valid one.
--- End quote ---
What she said was that wasn't her time to die... And no, actually Harry hasn't talked to Freydis
about how effective as a warrior Murphy is going to be in a full battle..
--- Quote ---In another story, sure, those traits would possibly be setup to something tragic and Bad. Within PT and the Dresden-verse, the narrative respects Murphy for it and it's pretty unlikely the narrative will suddenly turn around and go Murphy's just selfish and stupid, especially when she continues to contribute in significant ways to what's going on than if she'd just stayed in her house and healed. If she goes, it won't be because Oh No, Hubris — it'll likely be She Did the Right thing.
--- End quote ---
No one is saying she should stay in her house and heal, but hey sometimes that is best for everyone. Alternate roles for a physically impaired Murphy have long been debated at this site, and guarding and leading the paranet when they could very well be in danger is one of them.. Full of honor and before it is over might require a great deal of bravery.. I go back to the weak link in the chain, the team is only as strong as it's weakest link.. Thus everyone else on that team have to look after that weak link. That weak link can also cause the team to break.. A good warrior knows that..
--- Quote ---Before this book, I was leaning against the Murphy->Valkyrie route but Murphy's priorities and thinking makes me think that even IF she doesn't go that way, she's more than primed to continue to be aligned with that group in some way. It's like Arjan says about Molly getting primed to be aligned with the Fae.
--- End quote ---
Or reading this book, she is being primed for death..
Wolfeyes:
--- Quote ---What she said was that wasn't her time to die... And no, actually Harry hasn't talked to Freydis
about how effective as a warrior Murphy is going to be in a full battle..
--- End quote ---
No. Freydis briefly doubts Murphy, Murphy manages to pull one up on her and get gun under her chin, and Freydis then refers to Murphy as a Warrior and propositions her specifically (and even later tells Harry that if he wants to sleep with her, it'd take drinks first but if he brings Murphy along then Freydis would be onboard immediately).
The narrative and Freydis view her as a warrior to respect, even if you don't.
--- Quote ---No one is saying she should stay in her house and heal, but hey sometimes that is best for everyone. Alternate roles for a physically impaired Murphy have long been debated at this site, and guarding and leading the paranet when they could very well be in danger is one of them.. Full of honor and before it is over might require a great deal of bravery.. I go back to the weak link in the chain, the team is only as strong as it's weakest link.. Thus everyone else on that team have to look after that weak link. That weak link can also cause the team to break.. A good warrior knows that..
--- End quote ---
Yes. So weak chain. That's why she played a big role in getting the plan working, came up with a way to deal with their tails, was able to help talk Harry through his crisis after his confrontation with Eb, and was able to get Freydis to back off when she attacked her ::).
At that point, the narrative seems more geared towards the idea of debunking Murphy as just poor weak and damaged Murphy who can't do anything. It and Harry acknowledge she has limits and that's why he's afraid for her, but it also goes on to show her pulling her weight where she can. At that point, the only thing that's changed is where she's pulling it.
--- Quote ---Or reading this book, she is being primed for death..
--- End quote ---
And then revival as a Valkyrie :P. Either way, her death if it happens isn't going to be played as all her fault for being stupid and selfish based on the narrative we're being told.
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