The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Thoughts on Peace Talks (spoiler heavy)
Direwolf513:
I suspect I’ll be in the minority on this but wanted to get my thoughts down on the latest book in the Dresden Files, Peace Talks.
To put a point on it, I’m very disappointed. While I’m certain that I’d overhyped the book quite a bit in my mind because of the wait, to have a very short book loaded with unnecessary fluff and rehashing of the same interactions we’ve had repeatedly was an unpleasant surprise. (I would add that charging $15 for a soft copy of such an abbreviated work is uncool by the publisher).
So much of the book, with its already very short runtime, was devoted to concepts we’ve already experienced over and over. Examples include:
1) The effects of the Winter Mantle – right, we get it, it makes Harry want to screw and fight. He’s been dealing with that (and monologuing about it) for the last three books now. Devoting so much time to him essentially complaining about it adds nothing to the story and diminishes the character. It would have done better service to the character to have him say something along the lines of “the Winter Mantle continued to drive me towards the darker side of human emotion, something I’d been able to mitigate to an extent through an enforced regimen of heavy exercise” early in the book – that would have acknowledged it was still there and something he had to keep in mind while moving the character forward a bit AND giving a nod towards Harry’s increased physical strength.
Side note – there is so much talk of the violence and cruelty of winter. What about stillness? Anyone who’s been outside on a snowy night in a rural area knows how still and quiet winter can be. It would be nice for some of that to come into the equation. The series deals with balance a good bit and the idea of stillness would be a nice balance to the violence, particularly if done as kind of a “calm before the storm” kind of thing. Something like, “the stillness of a snowy winter’s night settled over me as I prepared my strike” would be nice.
2) Michael – hey, look, Harry has a moment of personal turmoil, goes to Michael, gets advice, and sallies forth… just like he did in Skin Game, and similar to interactions with Michael in Proven Guilty and Small Favor. Michael’s a great guy and a solid character, but can we maybe get some growth from Harry to indicate that the conversations he’s had with Michael in the past weren’t just wasted breath and he’s actually internalized some of these things?
3) Murphy – yet another case of Harry wanting to protect Murphy, her telling him she makes her own decisions, and him coming to the realization that he can’t run her life for her – the same realization he’s had over and over for years. If I had a nickel. It would be nice to see her character grow a little bit and realize that she DOES have limits and that going to battle in her very limited (or not? More below) condition puts handcuffs on Harry. She knows he’s irrational about protecting the people he loves and so would be keeping one eye on the fight and one on her (which could get them both killed) yet wants to go be a distraction because “it’s my life!”
4) Lara – Yep, super(naturally) sexy. Check. At what point does Harry put mental defenses into place, the way he’s done in the past against pain (see Small Favor) to mitigate her influence? A wizard should be able to do that, I would think. Instead, he’s still drooling all over himself with the extra added bonus of yet ANOTHER opportunity to talk about the Winter Mantle and its nasty attitude! Hooray!
Then we get into some new stuff that didn’t track:
1) Butters – The threesome scene was totally unnecessary and felt very forced (and like a little wish fulfillment on the part of the author, honestly). I assume that Butcher is trying to show the change in Butters over time, but he’s not acting like a Knight of the Cross – he’s acting like a Knight of the Sidhe. If he’d replaced Fix, that would be one thing, but he didn’t. Having him casually threaten Harry (the whole “tell anyone and I’ll knock your teeth out”) felt very off when held up against what we’ve seen from the other Knights – but would have been perfectly in keeping with the attitudes of the Sidhe.
2) McCoy – Well, that escalated quickly. Right from the jump, McCoy was a different character than the one we’ve known since Summer Knight. I get it, under stress, etc., but he’s been under tremendous stress before and not been so completely irrational. Then, after the underwhelming fight between them where Harry spends as much time fanboying as fighting (“Hell’s bells, was he better than me!”), we get the old “tough to learn that your parents aren’t perfect” thing – except we’d already gotten that in Blood Rites when Harry learned about the Blackstaff. It took him two years to get over that one – let’s do it again! Also, to have the setup of the White Court doing something horrible to him BEYOND Lord Raith killing his daughter and NOT say what it was seemed weak. I’d expect that we’ll get the story in the next book when Harry and Ebenezar make up and talk through things (very possibly as Ebenezer is lying in a pool of his own blood counting his last breaths), but it felt contrived that Harry, a private investigator, wouldn’t INVESTIGATE that a little more since it’s a massive clue as to why Ebenezer is acting so irrationally.
3) Murphy (part two) - She does the staggeringly stupid thing of cutting off her own casts to go put herself in harm’s way - but not as much as should have been the case. We get the bit in the beginning about how she “doesn’t get to be [her]” anymore and yet she has no trouble putting a sneak attack on a freaking Valkyrie who is already on her guard. Didn’t really seem too burdened by what should have been crippling injuries, huh?
4) Thomas – no time was spent trying to figure out why Thomas did what he did (or even proving conclusively that he DID do it). Based on how the Sidhe operate, if Thomas was used by someone else, he was just the tool (much like the Little Folks killing Aurora at Harry’s direction). As the situation is being adjudicated under the Accords (a Sidhe convention), wouldn’t it have made sense to figure out what the hell happened? It’s not like Harry’s not used to working under absurd time constraints.
5) Continuity – the book mentions the Tunguska event being the fallout of the last Dragon (capital D) being killed – but didn’t Michael kill Siriothrax after that? And didn’t Ebenezer claim credit for Tunguska when talking about his dirty work as the Blackstaff? I suppose he could have been killing a Dragon, but it doesn’t really pass the smell test. And then there’s Harry talking about the last time he was in the BFS castle was when he was a ghost – except that he was there at the end of Skin Game. I get that there’s a ton of lore to keep up with, so maybe the beta readers/editor should have caught that kind of thing, but it takes me out of the story when I see something that doesn’t match up with what’s gone before.
And then just some personal quibbles:
1) Starborn every 666 years, huh? Good thing no one’s ever used 666 as a mystical number before. Eye roll. Let’s get some “seventh son of a seventh son” action going, too, to keep the cliché train rolling.
2) The lack of information flying around was annoying. We’ve got McCoy pulling the “I’ve said too much already” crap, for crying out loud. There are literally packs of Outsiders materializing on the streets of Chicago – maybe this IS the right time to talk about Outsider-related stuff?!? Hey, Ebenezer – what if another pack shows up when you’re not around and Harry’s by himself? Wouldn’t it kinda make sense for him to know what’s going on simply to be able to protect himself??? Clear that Butcher is wanting to drag the audience along and is doing so by dragging Harry along with dialogue that doesn’t really make sense in the context of the moment.
3) Tying in with lack of information is Harry not telling Ebenezer up front about who Thomas is. I’m sure Ebenezer would have stormed off in a huff, but he would then have had TIME to think on it.
Side note – I know that Butcher lies in the WoJs, but in one he said that Ebenezer already knew about Thomas and didn’t really want to deal with it. Frankly, that’s a much more compelling and human approach than that a member of the Senior Council of the White Council of Wizards doesn’t even know about his own daughter’s children.
4) Lara attacking Harry on the island even though she saw how he operated there in Turn Coat felt off. I get she’s upset about her brother, but not even ASKING what happened before attacking was a bit squirrely.
5) Marcone, the most prepared, buttoned-up guy in the entire series, has exactly one guard on an extremely high-priority prisoner when he’s serving as a neutral location for a formal Accords matter? Really? And he’s being held in a freaking basement? Really really? No – Marcone’s better than that. But, hey, we needed a chance to show Lara’s sexiness and I guess an orgy of her seducing four or five guys at once would have been in poor taste (allusions to threesomes are, I guess, the limit).
6) Conjuritis… Good grief… he’s gonna sneeze stuff out of the air… And everyone knows what it is but him? Given what’s going on in the book, does stupid slapstick really fit? What purpose did that serve other than goofy sight gags?
7) Murphy (part three) – having her in the role she played relegated Goodman Grey, one of the most dangerous and capable people Harry knows who would, as a shapeshifter, REALLY have come in handy for the rescue/heist, to a bit part role. That’s a VERY interesting character – give him more airtime, please!
Now, I’m going to get the next book because I love the series and want to see how it comes out. But man, this book was a miss. Too short, rushed, and full of either unnecessary filler, stuff that ran counter to previous books, or just oddities (like Conjuritis). I’m really hoping that this book isn’t indicative of how the rest will be written because it’s nowhere near the standard Jim Butcher has set to date.
BrainFireBob:
Point 6. The frying pan. Harry didn't sneeze the frying pan into existence. Someone else, with the mortal gift of magic, that was thinking of pancakes. Someone who makes sense to have a "child's" wizard disease who could pass it to maybe a family member who'd never had it.
The two combine to point to Maggie having what Eb already listed as a criteria- proof that she'll have mystical power.
But unusually clumsily done by Butcher, agreed.
Heck, maybe Eb's got cancer.
As I recall, what Butcher said was that he knew everything he'd need to know to figure it out, but was really hostile to the idea and so hadn't. Not quite a lie if I recall correctly.
Mira:
--- Quote ---To put a point on it, I’m very disappointed. While I’m certain that I’d overhyped the book quite a bit in my mind because of the wait, to have a very short book loaded with unnecessary fluff and rehashing of the same interactions we’ve had repeatedly was an unpleasant surprise. (I would add that charging $15 for a soft copy of such an abbreviated work is uncool by the publisher).
--- End quote ---
Totally agree, I feel like someone wanted to make more money so they split one book into two. There really was no reason to make two books out of this, unless in Battle Field it gets into the weeds a bit more about what behind all of this.
--- Quote ---3) Murphy – yet another case of Harry wanting to protect Murphy, her telling him she makes her own decisions, and him coming to the realization that he can’t run her life for her – the same realization he’s had over and over for years. If I had a nickel. It would be nice to see her character grow a little bit and realize that she DOES have limits and that going to battle in her very limited (or not? More below) condition puts handcuffs on Harry. She knows he’s irrational about protecting the people he loves and so would be keeping one eye on the fight and one on her (which could get them both killed) yet wants to go be a distraction because “it’s my life!”
--- End quote ---
I think it was thrown in there to please her fans who've wanted the relationship consummated for years. To me there is all kinds of foreshadowing that she isn't going to survive the next book.
--- Quote ---1) Butters – The threesome scene was totally unnecessary and felt very forced (and like a little wish fulfillment on the part of the author, honestly). I assume that Butcher is trying to show the change in Butters over time, but he’s not acting like a Knight of the Cross – he’s acting like a Knight of the Sidhe. If he’d replaced Fix, that would be one thing, but he didn’t. Having him casually threaten Harry (the whole “tell anyone and I’ll knock your teeth out”) felt very off when held up against what we’ve seen from the other Knights – but would have been perfectly in keeping with the attitudes of the Sidhe.
--- End quote ---
Yup, that isn't just a light saber he keeps in his pocket.. I agree, Butters acting the tough guy just seems weird.
--- Quote ---2) McCoy – Well, that escalated quickly. Right from the jump, McCoy was a different character than the one we’ve known since Summer Knight. I get it, under stress, etc., but he’s been under tremendous stress before and not been so completely irrational. Then, after the underwhelming fight between them where Harry spends as much time fanboying as fighting (“Hell’s bells, was he better than me!”), we get the old “tough to learn that your parents aren’t perfect” thing – except we’d already gotten that in Blood Rites when Harry learned about the Blackstaff. It took him two years to get over that one – let’s do it again! Also, to have the setup of the White Court doing something horrible to him BEYOND Lord Raith killing his daughter and NOT say what it was seemed weak. I’d expect that we’ll get the story in the next book when Harry and Ebenezar make up and talk through things (very possibly as Ebenezer is lying in a pool of his own blood counting his last breaths), but it felt contrived that Harry, a private investigator, wouldn’t INVESTIGATE that a little more since it’s a massive clue as to why Ebenezer is acting so irrationally.
--- End quote ---
Out of the blue, Eb is just a pissed off old man warning Harry that they are out to get him, but no explanation as to who or why, save it sounded like a rehash of Summer Knight.. Take away his wizard status? Based on what?
--- Quote ---
3) Murphy (part two) - She does the staggeringly stupid thing of cutting off her own casts to go put herself in harm’s way - but not as much as should have been the case. We get the bit in the beginning about how she “doesn’t get to be [her]” anymore and yet she has no trouble putting a sneak attack on a freaking Valkyrie who is already on her guard. Didn’t really seem too burdened by what should have been crippling injuries, huh?
--- End quote ---
Except the Valkyrie did get the drop on her, and if the boat hadn't been docked at Demonreach that could have been the end right there... So she had a couple of grenades, that would have just blown her up, Valkyries are immortal.. She got saved because Harry as Warden of the island had the upper hand. The impression I got was Murphy did move very slow, and she didn't leave the boat did she?
--- Quote ---4) Thomas – no time was spent trying to figure out why Thomas did what he did (or even proving conclusively that he DID do it). Based on how the Sidhe operate, if Thomas was used by someone else, he was just the tool (much like the Little Folks killing Aurora at Harry’s direction). As the situation is being adjudicated under the Accords (a Sidhe convention), wouldn’t it have made sense to figure out what the hell happened? It’s not like Harry’s not used to working under absurd time constraints.
--- End quote ---
That is my biggest complaint about the book, that and what in the hell was the summit meeting all about anyway? And if it was that important why wasn't the Merlin there?
--- Quote ---1) Starborn every 666 years, huh? Good thing no one’s ever used 666 as a mystical number before. Eye roll. Let’s get some “seventh son of a seventh son” action going, too, to keep the cliché train rolling
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it is very weird because it is also considered the sign of the Beast..
--- Quote ---2) The lack of information flying around was annoying. We’ve got McCoy pulling the “I’ve said too much already” crap, for crying out loud. There are literally packs of Outsiders materializing on the streets of Chicago – maybe this IS the right time to talk about Outsider-related stuff?!? Hey, Ebenezer – what if another pack shows up when you’re not around and Harry’s by himself? Wouldn’t it kinda make sense for him to know what’s going on simply to be able to protect himself??? Clear that Butcher is wanting to drag the audience along and is doing so by dragging Harry along with dialogue that doesn’t really make sense in the context of the moment.
--- End quote ---
Which goes back to your original point, why was this need to make two books? This book was way short on information, or even build up to the big moment when the Titian appeared..
[quote
6) Conjuritis… Good grief… he’s gonna sneeze stuff out of the air… And everyone knows what it is but him? Given what’s going on in the book, does stupid slapstick really fit? What purpose did that serve other than goofy sight gags?quote]
What exactly was the point of that? Unless in the next book he disables the Titian by sneezing on it, thus being able to transport it off to Alfred and the Island.
--- Quote ---Now, I’m going to get the next book because I love the series and want to see how it comes out. But man, this book was a miss. Too short, rushed, and full of either unnecessary filler, stuff that ran counter to previous books, or just oddities (like Conjuritis). I’m really hoping that this book isn’t indicative of how the rest will be written because it’s nowhere near the standard Jim Butcher has set to date.
--- End quote ---
Agreed on all those points.
Grifter:
Is this the grievance thread? If so, I'll share my critical notes.
* I think it should have been one book instead of two. This part of the story wasn't worthy of being a standalone story. But that was out of Butcher's control.
* I was disappointed that Harry didn't know about the peace talks. His boss, his apprentice, his landlord, his wizard friends, his grandfather, his brother's family, and shared contacts with the Paranet/BFS didn't even hint that something that important was coming up? Hell, Maggie could have heard about it at school.
* Ethniu knocks out the city power, then waits two or more hours to attack while Harry runs back and forth to the island, and the Accorded Nations call in backup and organize?
* Alarm bells are ringing and Lacuna doesn't show up ready to defend Maggie?
* There was a serious lack of action. A cornerhound attack, a sucker kick, and a dock fight is it? I'm sure the second half will be nothing but epic fights, but...
* Eb, Thomas, Harry acting like a dick to Thomas in the first chapter, Butters, Carlos & the gang... They were all weird. I know some time has gone by but... Just weird.
* I'm disappointed in how small the meetings were. Like, this is a Huge Event in the supernatural world, and it's being held in a townhome sized lot, with a central meeting room that had to be small because the building couldn't be sprawling. I'd have preferred that Marcone had bought up the surrounding properties to make a big building. How do all those attendees even fit into a room with a band in that floorplan?
* So Harry runs around wearing his cloak of invisibility during the big showdown event while everyone else (including Marcone) faces the enemy down? Marcone was badass before and during this book, whereas Harry was ill-equipped, ill-prepared, distracted, and uninvolved for most of it.
Okay, now things I'm grateful for.
* A new Dresden story!
* Really glad Harry didn't ponder his own potential evil before sticking his hand in the lightsaber. We would have gotten paragraphs about his anxiety, plus some reassurances from Michael, followed by a paragraph on relief and gratitude, in the past.
* The time spent on Lara. I like her, and I like that she got some quality character development time.
But was the hallway sex necessary? Her dad was King and can kill with a kiss. As Queen she can't leave someone in a puddle with one?
* I didn't think Murphy and Harry's interactions were bad in this one. Honestly it was refreshing that they were the same with each other, when others were acting so out of character.
* I enjoyed Mab getting stomped. Not because I don't like her, because I do. But it was an excellent way to say This Is The Big Leagues.
* I might be sad that Harry was pretty useless, but Marcone was badass. What a pimp, literally and figuratively. I've never been for or against him, but all of Harry's bitter hatred of Marcone seems petty in the face of Marcone doing everything he's done.
I don't know how he's amassed the fortune he'd need to pay for everything he's paid for. Sex send drugs don't make *that* much, even for the cartel leaders. He must be making mad bank (ba-dump-ching).
Direwolf513:
--- Quote from: Mira on July 17, 2020, 05:50:20 PM ---Except the Valkyrie did get the drop on her, and if the boat hadn't been docked at Demonreach that could have been the end right there... So she had a couple of grenades, that would have just blown her up, Valkyries are immortal.. She got saved because Harry as Warden of the island had the upper hand. The impression I got was Murphy did move very slow, and she didn't leave the boat did she?
--- End quote ---
I was referencing the scene at the Raith Estate where Murphy uses an elbow bump and puts the pistol up under Freydia's chin to convince her that Murphy could carry her weight. As bad as her injuries were, engaging in activity like that should have been agonizing, particularly as she was wincing in pain from beginning to fool around with Harry.
Getting taken by Freydia on the boat makes perfect sense given the speed and strength advantages the Valkyrie has along with who knows how many years of fighting experience. Murphy just planned ahead and, even though she'd have died, she'd have prevented Gard from aiding her employer, which would count as a loss for her and so not an acceptable outcome.
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