The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Why, Thomas, Why? (Peace Talks Spoilers)
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on July 29, 2020, 02:35:57 AM ---I've never heard your theory before... And it's kinda confusing... Where did you draw your conclusions from? I haven't read PG in awhile..
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(click to show/hide)On summoning and sending. There is a discussion between Bob and Harry about how fetches move back and forth. When Maeve summons there is a tell. The temperature drops 40 degrees. This happens in the Cantina scene in Summer Knight
--- Quote from: Summer Knight ---Sudden blue light gathered around her fingers, and the temperature in the room dropped by about forty degrees. She spoke again, and flicked her wrist, sending glowing motes of azure flickering toward Slate.
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and now Proven Guilty.
--- Quote from: Proven guilty attack 2 ---The temperature had dropped maybe forty degrees in the space of a minute.
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--- Quote from: Proven Guilty attack 3 ---As I did, the air temperature plummeted, sending the hotel’s climate from near-sauna to near-freezing in a handful of seconds.
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It's a sign of Maeve not using her magic effectively. When the fetches attack Pell in the bathroom Rawlings just outside the door notices nothing like that. And as a bonus no one is killed. But that event starts Dresden down the road to discovering Molly.
Sandra Marling is the player in the center who brings all the kids together and suggests to Molly that fear could control her friends. Sandra meets them because Molly has gotten in trouble with the authorities and is in conflict with her family and Marling is volunteering with at risk kids.
Early in the book Harry suggests that the best way stop warlocks before they become one, is to try and find them.
--- Quote from: Proven Guilty ---The best solution is prevention. Find the kids displaying serious talent and teach them better from the get-go. But the world population has grown so much in the past century that the White Council can’t possibly identify and reach them all.
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Given in the Dresden files that magic is a myth to the public these kids would tend to be like Charity and Molly and find themselves in the juvenile justice system. The BC seems to be looking in the same way that the Formor are seeking minor talents.
Why do I think LC and the Outer Gates might be related. In White Knight when Harry follows Grey Cloak and is sensed by Cowl and attacked,
--- Quote from: White Knight ---Cowl held up a miniature hand for silence, a gesture that looked, somehow, stiff and pained. Then his hood panned around the room.
The figure's gaze met mine, and hit me like a literal, physical blow, a swift jab in the chest.
"He is there!" Cowl snarled. The misty figure turned to face me and lifted both hands.
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the scene mirrors the scene in Small Favor when Mab uses the snow scene to show the Denarian's taking Marcone, including Gard blocking Mab's vision.
--- Quote from: Small Favor ---Then Gard’s head snapped up, looking directly at where Mab currently stood, as if the little snow sculpture could somehow see the titanic form of the Winter Queen looking down upon her. Gard reached into her suit pocket, drew out what looked like a slender wooden box, the kind that really high-end pen sets come in sometimes, and took a small, rectangular plaque of some kind from the box. She lifted it, facing Mab again, and snapped the little plaque in her fingers.
The entire snow sculpture collapsed on itself and was gone.
“They saw the hidden camera,” I muttered
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In one of the short stories Luccio say that the white Council doesn't have a satellite to detect Black Magic but that Rashid seems to be very good at it. This it turns out is Rashid's job at the Gate. And he tells Harry that the eye has many functions.
The thesis is then that the whole thing was an attempt to get Harry out of the way by putting him at odds with the White Council using Molly as a stalking goat. Uriel, unnamed until another book, moves Michael out of the way. Rashid starts Harry looking and Mab shows him where to look.
The third attack is meant to be big and draw the Council in, Madrigal is window dressing whose killing would make sure the Council wouldn't miss it. With no warning Harry would only find at the trial that Molly was the warlock. Leaving him no choice but to go down swinging.
The events at Arctis Tor are more difficult to explain but basically they reveal why Mab didn't retaliate. She isn't sure if Summer is behind the plot. But it tells Harry that the Denarian's are involved. and it keeps Harry out of Chicago why the events involving Michael and Eb play out. And finally it is clear that Rashid is helping Harry delay as his allies approach at Molly's trial.
The_Sibelis:
Ok ok.. mmm (click to show/hide)I've always considered the summoner and the beacon seperate things, Bob just lists off the components of what's needed and not necessarily the variations that it could happen from.
The air temperature is a good indicator someone of less skill would be there I do suppose too. And nobody died when Mab sent them because, she's not allowed to kill, Maeve being Nfected might not have that limitation anymore though.
Funny Rashid is good at detecting black magic though when his main thing is detecting Nemesis... Another cluebat to their connectivity.
I agree with many of your clues but not all of your conclusions, still don't see why LC and The Outer Gates are connected by that though, it's just a form of scrying, something that can be detected. Iirc Harry senses the shadowman when he's hanging around watching his toad demon in action doesn't he?
It does show maeves hand in it perhaps, but she's not the only player on the field and her goals don't align entirely with all the rest, she's... Well, Maeve lol, very self centered. Though it makes me wonder if her actions weren't part of a deal to get her extra freedoms. Considering that, I'd think it wise to look at what Nemesis would want out of the situation vs what Maeve might want to actually do just because she can (like a genie granting ironically bad wishes is the closest parallel I can think of)
Weren't the last two attacks accompanied by more than just the fetches too? I know one had the murk harry fought through, but idk about the other.
vultur:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on July 27, 2020, 04:35:26 PM ---I choose to believe DR is too basic and foreign to be Nfected, to believe otherwise pretty much screws reality without recourse and seems like an easy out for nemesis that would have been tried already.
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Alfred is probably too powerful (when on the island... and he's always on the island). I don't think Nemesis can infect just anything.
Lea was fighting back to some degree, so she might be near the upper power limit of what Nemesis could control.
I think there's a WoJ that it just wouldn't work at all on Uriel because he's far too powerful.
So there might be a middle ground... maybe someone like Ferrovax would be weakened by fighting the N-fection but wouldn't be controlled. And Alfred on Demonreach might be stronger than that (he could apparently overpower Mab).
vultur:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on July 27, 2020, 06:20:47 PM ---I think Nemesis can infect mortals.
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I think it's likely possible given the way the Gatekeeper talks about it in CD... if everyone on the White Council was totally immune there wouldn't be the need for so much secrecy, at least within the Council.
But I think it's probably low-return compared to N-fecting one of the powerful Fae. Mortals can act against their nature without Nemesis, so on the one hand it can probably get mortals to do what it wants by other means, and on the other hand if Nemesis works by changing your nature - well, they could still act against the new changed nature.
--- Quote from: ClintACK on July 27, 2020, 12:58:31 PM ---If a non-starborn wizard were to do what Harry did to the cornerhounds -- opening his mind up to the Outside -- would that kind of Corruption be Nemesis? Or just another kind of madness?
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Probably the latter. More like being mentally destroyed by an emotion-feeding entity like the phobophages in PG, except that the result might be a more "functional-but-dangerous" insanity, IMO.
--- Quote ---Re: Justine's madness -- if Thomas's feeding was the only thing keeping her sane, what's going to happen to her when Thomas is locked away in a cell??
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Thomas wasn't feeding on her for years after BR... she used medications.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on July 29, 2020, 04:18:45 AM ---Ok ok.. mmm (click to show/hide)I've always considered the summoner and the beacon seperate things, Bob just lists off the components of what's needed and not necessarily the variations that it could happen from.
The air temperature is a good indicator someone of less skill would be there I do suppose too. And nobody died when Mab sent them because, she's not allowed to kill, Maeve being Nfected might not have that limitation anymore though.
Funny Rashid is good at detecting black magic though when his main thing is detecting Nemesis... Another cluebat to their connectivity.
I agree with many of your clues but not all of your conclusions, still don't see why LC and The Outer Gates are connected by that though, it's just a form of scrying, something that can be detected. Iirc Harry senses the shadowman when he's hanging around watching his toad demon in action doesn't he?
It does show maeves hand in it perhaps, but she's not the only player on the field and her goals don't align entirely with all the rest, she's... Well, Maeve lol, very self centered. Though it makes me wonder if her actions weren't part of a deal to get her extra freedoms. Considering that, I'd think it wise to look at what Nemesis would want out of the situation vs what Maeve might want to actually do just because she can (like a genie granting ironically bad wishes is the closest parallel I can think of)
Weren't the last two attacks accompanied by more than just the fetches too? I know one had the murk harry fought through, but idk about the other.
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(click to show/hide)There are multiple story arcs at play. From Maeve's POV she is setting up the events of Cold Days. Subverting Lilly and spreading the idea that Mab is crazy. Attacking Harry plays to the idea of keeping him from becoming the Winter Knight. What we know from later books is that at this point Mab is alone. Maeve is compromised, Lea is Nemfected, Slate is locked up and under torture. Mab is very alone and this is why she doesn't retaliate against the Reds. And why she was attacked with Hellfire at Arctis Tor. To make her protect her wellspring.
Little Chicago is used three times. Tracking Molly, spying on Grey Cloak and when Harry uses it to make the Oak Leaf a distraction in Small Favor. At least two of those uses are demonstrated by Rashid and Mab. The one I have already shown you and their uncanny ability to always know where Harry is. Assuming the similarity then it isn't a stretch to think they are related, however remotely. You will find out somewhere near book 20 if Jim gets there.
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