The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Kincaid

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Yuillegan:
Agreed vultur, Kincaid is more of a scalpel than a scythe. But I imagine seeing him in frenzied combat would be something like John Wick cross Van Helsing (from the movie). Just an incredibly fast, efficient killing machine.

In many ways he is like a wizard. How effective he is depends on how prepared he is, what knowledge he has. He could conceivably kill a Lord of the Outer Night with the right information and weapons. I didn't get the impression they were immortal. It's not an unusual tactic for a strike team like Dresden's to have a sniper or some such providing suppression fire and support.

Cheer Con! I was always annoyed by the fact Kincaid said that...especially considering what we know of Eb. My only thought was that it was written long before we got to see what Eb could do so perhaps Jim hadn't really fleshed that out. But Kincaid's comment to Dresden always felt like pandering anyway. Although it's possible he was less talking about Harry's destructive power and more about Harry's lack of control. Which is likely considering Lasciel was influencing him at this point. But I too want to see Kincaid go all out.

Knnn - I had wondered about that theory too. Was it one of your WAGs from ages ago? I swear someone suggested it a while back. Anyway, Kincaid as Dracula's younger brother would be interesting. But I would think he would have more vamp tendencies. It's an interesting idea that he might be like Goodman Grey...I suspect Jim has a whole other thing about monsters and souls that we haven't gone into much yet.

Bad Alias - I like the idea that the double-image might be the presence of Kincaid's progenitor. But the foreshadowing of Dresden's murder was long in the works...part of the reason the character exists I am sure (from a Doylist perspective). Perhaps it is a bit of both?

vultur:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 07, 2020, 01:42:21 PM ---In many ways he is like a wizard. How effective he is depends on how prepared he is, what knowledge he has. He could conceivably kill a Lord of the Outer Night with the right information and weapons.
--- End quote ---

Oh, with the right degree of setup and the right situation, it's not impossible.

But in the Changes situation, they were going to Chichen Itza - on the enemy's ground - on pretty short notice.

I mean, maybe if he shot them in the belly enough to make the blood leak out, they would then be weak enough to kill. But that would require facing them, and I don't think Kincaid could resist their "force of will" ability - as soon as one of the Lords of Outer Night saw him, he'd be helpless.

I don't think a sniper rifle bullet in the head would be fatal to a being like that.


--- Quote --- I didn't get the impression they were immortal.
--- End quote ---

Well... there are degrees of "immortal" in the DV. I agree they weren't capital-I Immortal, as no mantles seem to have passed on. Though they are "mostly retired gods", whatever that means.

But they're "immortal" in the sense of "don't age and really hard to kill". The Red King's hand starts crawling back to him, which suggests a regenerative ability on the level of the "uber-ghouls" in WN. Even if the other LoON are somewhat weaker, I don't think even a .50 caliber bullet to the head would do permanent damage.


--- Quote ---Anyway, Kincaid as Dracula's younger brother would be interesting. But I would think he would have more vamp tendencies.
--- End quote ---

I don't think so. Drakul wasn't vampiric; Dracula joined/created the Black Court to rebel against Drakul. So another son of Drakul would have no particular reason to be vampiric.

Yuillegan:
True enough. I suspect he would have been too costly for Dresden on such a suicide mission. But I wonder what he would do if it was Ivy?

I wouldn't be surprised to seem him verse the army that shows up in the next book or so.

Probably not, I doubt they would go down from a sheer bullet. They probably have wards all over themselves to prevent such things, assuming their physical resistance isn't enough. And I agree that they likely have strong regenerative abilities. I think only magical attacks had a chance, and those Swords of the Cross are pretty powerful. Lea herself is in a similar category clearly, for what it's worth. Although she caught two of them by surprise.

The other thing to consider is that they were not as strong as Vadderung, who himself is not what he was. They are nigh-immortals - un-ageing, superhuman and mostly immune to conventional damage. But they don't seem to be in the same category as things like the Ladies that would eventually reform regardless of physical destruction (with the exception of during/in conjunctions).

Well actually, we don't know that Drakul wasn't vampiric. All we know is that his son Dracula ended up as a Black Court vampire (possibly creating them to impress his father - which didn't work out). The real question is why would Dracula turn himself into such a being in order to impress his father? Why would he think that would impress him? What kind of being would be impressed by such darkness? It bodes ill for whatever Drakul really is...

vultur:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 08, 2020, 03:47:41 AM ---But they don't seem to be in the same category as things like the Ladies that would eventually reform regardless of physical destruction (with the exception of during/in conjunctions).
--- End quote ---

Oh, I agree. They weren't full-on Mantle-bearing Immortals in the way the Faerie Ladies/Queens are.

But not all really powerful beings are.

Naagloshii are apparently killable by ridiculously extreme force, but they are powerful enough to distort ley lines around themselves. Having that kind of effect on reality probably puts them on at least Faerie Lady power level.

Kemmler seems to have been even more powerful than that, but he didn't succeed in becoming an actual Immortal.


--- Quote ---Well actually, we don't know that Drakul wasn't vampiric.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I phrased that badly. He might well be vampiric in the sense of feeding on mortal life/life force, which plenty of beings outside the Vampire Courts do. Just not associated directly with the Black Court.

Yuillegan:
Very true.

Although I am not sure I agree with you on the bit about Kemmler. I don't see Kemmler disrupting Ley Lines. Not all of Kemmler's strength was magical. Much of it was in his knowledge, and his connections. He even had a small army of minions. That's really what made him bad, from what I can tell. He basically set himself up (rather like Marcone) as a Power. Maybe not as powerful as the White Council or whatever, but in some ways that made him more flexible and more dangerous. He could outmaneuver them. He wasn't bound by rules or protocol or bureaucracy. He was certainly a terrifyingly powerful wizard, magically speaking (according to most sources). But still human it seems, and therefore vulnerable. I rather suspect he used the council's own laws against them too. Kemmler would have succeeded, had his rite/spell been successful. But he was interrupted and blocked from using magic, his armies beaten and I suspect possibly betrayed by at least one of his loyal servants. I would also bet the big powers like Mab and Vadderung helped organise his downfall. They seem to have a hand in much smaller events than that, so it's even possible beings in the order of Archangel's were involved.

True, plenty of beings do feed off life force I guess. But I do think there is something hugely significant about Vampires feeding of blood/life force of mortals. I think it's tied into the bigger picture but I am not yet sure how. But part of it hints in how powerful they become, depending on what/who they feed off. And each Court seems uniquely fit to beat humanity in one arena or another. Yet they also seem uniquely vulnerable too. Sometimes I wonder if Drakul or some other big bad was experimenting with each Court and that a new and improved Court of Vampires will emerge.

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