The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 14, 2020, 12:24:48 PM ---Very true, but one lesson perhaps is to put a fence around the stove, but some are determined to climb it and touch the stove anyway. In the end both Kim and Susan were responsible for themselves and decided to ignore the reality of what Harry was telling them. Susan had read Dracula so decided that she knew how to protect herself over the warnings of a fully trained wizard who seriously wanted to pass on that party. Kim not only to lied to Harry about why she wanted the information, but decided as someone who didn't even have the grade of apprentice could handle something like a Loop. Just because you have taken a first aid course that doesn't qualify you to do brain surgery, you gotta know when to deffer to someone a lot more qualified that you are.
--- End quote ---
If I want I can go to the nearest univerity bookstore and read for myself how difficult brain surgery is and what can go wrong. I probably give up after some reading but that in itself tells me something. Harry's secrecy is really not helping here.
And because of that secrecy Susan had no clue about how dangerous the whole situation was and how serious she had to take Harry's warning and how useless her precautions were.
We can not expect everyone to blindly trust Harry in everything even if it sounds so reasonable because we are in his head. Susan was not. She was a journalist. They go to warzones which is pretty stupid if you think about it.
So he probably could have done more to prevent her from going, she should not have seen the invitation at all.
But the real reason Harry blames himself for everything is his past as a warlock, he is overcompensating. The Harry we see in his flashback in Ghost Story is not like that but he killed Justin with magic breaking the laws.
Eb did not teach Harry magic, he teached when to use it and why and his first priority was saving Harry from himself. The overcompensation is a direct result from Ebenezar changing Harry's nature.
Breaking the laws changes you even if you do not become a warlock.
Dina:
Using magic in self-defense is not against the rules.
And Harry told both of them it was dangerous, if they decided not to hear them, it's on them.
Mira, you may be right about Harry's friends. They willingly went with him.
Mira:
--- Quote ---And because of that secrecy Susan had no clue about how dangerous the whole situation was and how serious she had to take Harry's warning and how useless her precautions were.
--- End quote ---
Look, Harry could have given her a full course on how dangerous vamps are and she still would have stole that invitation. He told her outright what they'd do to her, why he was afraid, yet she didn't respect his knowledge or the kind of power he has as a wizard. Frankly she let some notion of Harry being over protective of her as a woman get in the way of what he was trying to tell her. If Susan was clueless, it was because she chose to be clueless.
--- Quote ---We can not expect everyone to blindly trust Harry in everything even if it sounds so reasonable because we are in his head. Susan was not. She was a journalist. They go to warzones which is pretty stupid if you think about it.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and many are killed doing so, they know it is dangerous to go into a war zone, they take their chances and what happens is on them. No, not blindly trust, however Susan had an idea of how powerful Harry is, so his fear alone should have told her something. He tried to tell her, but she chose not to listen.
--- Quote ---If I want I can go to the nearest univerity bookstore and read for myself how difficult brain surgery is and what can go wrong. I probably give up after some reading but that in itself tells me something. Harry's secrecy is really not helping here.
--- End quote ---
Maybe you would, but as my brother in law says, " some people know just enough to be dumb.." They've had an anatomy class, they've taken first aid, they read a book, how hard can it be? Harry wasn't making a secret of how dangerous vamps can be, Susan chose to ignore the facts and most importantly, his experience, she'd read Dracula, she'd watched Harry fight off demons and a Loop and survived, so how hard could it be to survive a den of vamps and other monsters?
--- Quote ---So he probably could have done more to prevent her from going, she should not have seen the invitation at all.
--- End quote ---
If I remember correctly she was there when he got it.. And honestly, what difference does that make? He can't be held responsible for the fact that she is a thief...
Avernite:
Interesting as it is, do we really need round #N of the "Harry was/was not responsible for Kim's/Susan's fate"?
As to the microfiction, I think the last sentence "never did say goodbye" must mean either:
A) Kincaid never speaks to Ivy in private again or
B) Kincaid actually cares that he never said goodbye to Harry
But then his tough 'I don't care' act is firmly broken further up in the story, so who knows, maybe it really is B.
Redepisg:
--- Quote from: Avernite on March 14, 2020, 08:22:31 PM ---Interesting as it is, do we really need round #N of the "Harry was/was not responsible for Kim's/Susan's fate"?
--- End quote ---
This is a new argument for me, so just one more thing.
Harry has involvement in what happened to both of them due to his refusal to give them enough information to make an informed choice when he had the opportunity. Instead, when Harry refuses to help Kim she assumes Harry's just treating her like an ignorant apprentice and goes ahead with her plan and gets killed for it. If Harry had helped her out would she have gone ahead with it? Probably, and she might or might not have succeeded with his assistance; he might even have gone there personally when he realized what was at stake. We'll never know. But Harry? He insists on playing the "I'm a mysterious wizard, and I won't explain any of the reasoning behind my decisions" card, and it pretty much cost Kim her life. He basically ensured her failure by intentionally holding back information that could have helped. Granted, she was probably feeling pretty good about her skills by that point, had probably succeeded at some difficult things already, and that gave her the sense that she was ready to go up to the next level. Spoiler: She wasn't, and now she'll never be.
With Susan, he had made sure she knew vampires were dangerous, but judging by her actions she clearly had no idea just how dangerous they could be. Would she still have gone through with her plan if he had sat her down and made her understand? Something tells me she would, but something also tells me she would have been better prepared at the same time. She's ambitious, not stupid. She was fully convinced her preparations were enough to ensure her safety. She was wrong. Why? Because she didn't have the necessary information. Both of them had just enough information to get in over their heads but not enough to realize it until it was too late. Why? Because Harry Dresden refused to tell them.
Both of them got where they ended up through their own decisions based on what they thought they knew. Who had ample opportunity to correct their mistaken assumptions but didn't? Harry Dresden. Kim even asked him for help, and he refused.
I'm not saying Harry's fully responsible, but he definitely had a hand in what happened to them by denying vital information.
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Now, about the microfiction.
Seems like Kincaid is telling himself all sorts of things. "It's only a job." Ha, yeah right. He's grown to care for her in his own weird way.
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