The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Bad Alias:
@Mira: Marcone is a neutral party under the Accords, just like a dozen others. Regarding neutrality, not specific power sets and personal histories, how are they different? Are they all physically incapable of acting in a non-neutral way? You are completely missing the point if you are not ignoring it. How does being a neutral party under the Accords mean that the Archive is "bound by neutrality" but doesn't mean that Marcone and the dozen others are not?
Ivy lies. It doesn't matter what she says about herself because she lies about it. Jim said so. She's maintaining a pretense. It is a false pretense.
--- Quote ---All that other stuff she says the Archive is for? Smoke and mirrors. :)
Kincaid, by the way, has no idea that the Oblivion War exists. It isn’t like Ivy explains this stuff.
--- End quote ---
Jim Butcher, https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-harrys-mortal-allies/. Why should we trust what Ivy says about the thing Jim says Ivy is lying about?
Why hadn't Harry gone to Marcone already? Why was he going to go to the green book first? Because he hadn't figure it out on his own. Why did Harry go to Marcone? It's not because he figured it out on his own.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on May 16, 2020, 02:23:04 AM ---[1]Just for the record, Mab ended the Reds, not Ivy. You don't think it was an accident that Lea was at Harry's, at that moment of time? ... [2]But Ivy didn't tell Harry anything that he couldn't have known, given Marcone's known proclivities.
[3]The question about Ivy, is neutral with respect to what? She is bound to her purpose, which is to win the Oblivion War, on behalf of humanity. That isn't a neutral purpose.
--- End quote ---
1. Mab, Lea, Odin, Ebenezar, Harry, Martin, Susan, the White God, perhaps the Merlin, and Ivy. Of those Mab is the one I'm the least sure of. She had plenty of reason. They violated her Accords. Lea had her own reasons. She couldn't pay Bianca back for the Nemesis infection, but faerie debts never just go away. They are inherited. Odin had his own reasons. I've got my own ideas what they could be. They targeted Eb's family. Same with Harry and Susan. It was the entire goal of Martin's being. I assume everyone remembers "Murphy's" pronouncement. The Merlin's root and branch language has some nice symmetry to what actually happened. And I'd say the genocide of a target of the Oblivion War works just as well as obliviating them. If it doesn't, it will make it easier to erase all knowledge of them in the next few millennia.
The Oblivion War is a proxy war. She has others do all her work for her. That's the point.
2. Harry often has to be spoon fed information. This was the case as far back as Grave Peril when Lea suggested he use the water to defeat the Nightmare. The truth is that Harry hadn't figured out that Marcone could help him. He needed to be told. That's why the Archive told him. It accomplished a piece her core mission.
3. Exactly.
--- Quote from: kbrizzle on May 16, 2020, 04:57:59 AM ---I think the whole point with the Archive is that it is supposed to be neutral in concept.
--- End quote ---
No. The whole point of the Archive is to kill all monsters. (Obliviating here being the functional equivalent). Hell, even in the cover story as told by Harry and Luccio, the whole point of the Archive is to safeguard all human knowledge. Neutrality is just a means of helping the Archive survive to do it. And safeguarding all human knowledge is kind of the opposite of the point. Destroying certain human knowledge is the whole point of the Archive.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
2. Harry often has to be spoon fed information. This was the case as far back as Grave Peril when Lea suggested he use the water to defeat the Nightmare. The truth is that Harry hadn't figured out that Marcone could help him. He needed to be told. That's why the Archive told him. It accomplished a piece her core mission.
--- End quote ---
I would hardly call what she said to him being spoon fed. Her core mission? Are you suggesting that she is the one who "planned" little Maggie's kidnapping so Harry would destroy the Reds?
--- Quote --- Marcone is a neutral party under the Accords, just like a dozen others. Regarding neutrality, not specific power sets and personal histories, how are they different? Are they all physically incapable of acting in a non-neutral way? You are completely missing the point if you are not ignoring it. How does being a neutral party under the Accords mean that the Archive is "bound by neutrality" but doesn't mean that Marcone and the dozen others are not?
--- End quote ---
Because they simply are not the same.. The Archive has it's own set of rules that it must abide by
so Ivy couldn't help Dresden outright.. Hence she gave him a hint. Obviously Marcone isn't bound by the same rules because he did.
morriswalters:
There is a contradiction. Why would Ivy seek to end the Reds and not do so to the Whites. Dead is dead and murder is murder.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on May 16, 2020, 12:27:48 PM ---There is a contradiction. Why would Ivy seek to end the Reds and not do so to the Whites. Dead is dead and murder is murder.
--- End quote ---
I do not think the archive was actually more involved than that little bit of information she gave Harry but in the reality there is no contradiction. The reds were becomming more and more agressive, allied with outsiders and were disturbing everything. They made themselves into a priority. The whites are pretty good in not making themselves into a priority.
And there was opportunity. Priority and opportunity. The whites are far more difficult to get rid off.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on May 16, 2020, 02:17:52 PM ---I do not think the archive was actually more involved than that little bit of information she gave Harry but in the reality there is no contradiction. The reds were becomming more and more agressive, allied with outsiders and were disturbing everything. They made themselves into a priority. The whites are pretty good in not making themselves into a priority.
And there was opportunity. Priority and opportunity. The whites are far more difficult to get rid off.
--- End quote ---
If you believe what is being said, the Archive does work with the Whites in the OB war, so I doubt it would want them destroyed. The way I read the passage in Changes, the Archive didn't want to give Harry anything and wouldn't allow Ivy to. What Ivy did do because Harry is her friend and she owes him one, is give him the merest of hints with the Archive knowingly looking the other way.. What Harry chose to do with that hint was totally up to him.... Now while yeah, the man he'd least like to hear from is Marcone, who turned out to be of some use, it could have easily been someone like Nic, who Harry also doesn't like to hear from either, in which case wouldn't have provided what was needed.. Or maybe but not in the long run.
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