The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Arjan on May 06, 2020, 01:46:51 AM ---You can eat both.
--- End quote ---
See, they are the same.
AClone:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on April 11, 2020, 07:50:35 PM ---You might be talking "neutral" in terms of the Accords, but many people are talking about her cover story of neutrality. The neutrality explicitly stated in books. It's pretty common for people to build theories around that neutrality or to object to theories based on that neutrality. The fact that it's a cover is only stated by Jim. It's not in any of the books, short stories, comic books, or paranet papers.
--- End quote ---
Ah. I see where the misapprehension comes in. Alas.
I am familiar with that WOJ. Jim elaborated on how it’s the Archive’s cover story that her role is simply to be the repository of all human knowledge—when she is actually on the lookout for mentions of beings better left forgotten. At which point she dispatches agents to deal with them.
That is not a lack of “neutrality”. Being neutral does not mean being inactive. Switzerland has been neutral for centuries, and yet continues to be active in it’s own pursuits.
The Archive is neutral. She doesn’t ally with anyone, or act in any interests of any party other than those of the Archive itself.
Though she might work around the edges of that proscription where one of her two friends is involved.
So, “neutral” is not a synonym for “inactive”. I hope That helps all of the people out there who misunderstand.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 25, 2020, 04:07:37 PM ---
There's a WoJ that being in the coins limits the influence of the Fallen in them to Earth, which I had taken to mean that the Fallen in the coins absolutely can project themselves out of them, it's just against the rules. If that's the case, then there wouldn't be any need for a ritual.
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I think you perhaps misunderstood that WOJ.
When a Coin is in secure storage, it is able to influence it’s immediate surroundings. Slightly, to the extent that over an extended period of time, it can work it’s way back into circulation.
The speed that coins have gotten back into circulation so fast indicates corruption, a outside force other than the coin/Fallen combo.
A Fallen that dominates it’s host (such as the first incarnation of Ursiel) has limited abilities due to a lack of the hosts’ choice in every action.
For a Fallen such as Anduriel, working in partnership with Nick, enabled by free choice, Jim was saying that their power is “limited” to this world alone, to Earth—rather than galaxies, the universe, Reality—as Uriel’s power is limited only by choice.
In essence, that a Fallen working in partnership effectively has unlimited power—but it’s restricted to Earth. That’s their only limit. He’s saying that they are still very powerful.
As far as which Fallen influenced Harry in Changes, there is a WOJ that I didn’t understand until now. In Skin Game, Lasciel made it clear that it was she who had done it, and now I think I understand. Most of it, anyway.
I don’t recall the context, but WOJ said that in Changes when Harry told Mab that he had other options besides taking up the mantle of the Winter Knight, he was “kinda lying”. I puzzled over that one for a while, because Jim had made it clear that he thought that was an
option for Harry.
Then I got it. By the time Changes rolled around, Lasciel’s Coin had already escaped containment. Not only that, but someone had also taken up the coin for themselves.
That’s how A. Lasciel was able to act, and B. Why Harry would have been able to summon the coin, even though he thought he’d be able to. In other words, it’s not a lie if you believe you’re correct.
The only qualifier being that the person who took up Lasciel’s coin had to either voluntarily give it up or lose it—intentionally, so that it could be given to Hannah Ascher.
In the former case, just as an example, someone like Nick might have put down Anduriel temporarily—or ordered someone else to do so—just so that Lasciel could act against Harry at a crucial juncture. Well, Anduriel would have known that it was a “crucial juncture”, after all.
Anyway, that makes sense to me.
What happened to Ursiel and Lasciel’s coins after Harry left is another question. I suppose it’s possible that Nick managed to grab Ursiel’s coin before he made a dash for it. Not Lasciel’s—though if Hannah Ascher managed to survive beneath all of that molten rock, that seems a very Jim thing to do.
Otherwise, it would appear that Hades has a couple more religious artifacts to display when he tidied up Vault Seven.
morriswalters:
By implication if Lasciel had a host Harry couldn't have summoned her. And assuming she didn't, and he could have, there is no indication that she could have fixed his back in time to save his daughter or would have desired to, since she tries to kill him with a whisper just when he would have tried to summon her.(If indeed it was her). And he couldn't have done the Darkhallow since he had a broken back. In my neighborhood as a youth we would have said he was talking shit. Certainly Jim could have written Changes in a different way, but given the story he wrote Harry, was desperate and hoping that Mab could heal him.
Jim's intentions have been clear since Proven Guilty. Harry was going to be the Winter Knight. Slate posed in that frozen prison pretty much made it clear.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: AClone on May 07, 2020, 09:46:00 PM ---Ah. I see where the misapprehension comes in. Alas.
I am familiar with that WOJ. Jim elaborated on how it’s the Archive’s cover story that her role is simply to be the repository of all human knowledge—when she is actually on the lookout for mentions of beings better left forgotten. At which point she dispatches agents to deal with them.
That is not a lack of “neutrality”. Being neutral does not mean being inactive. Switzerland has been neutral for centuries, and yet continues to be active in it’s own pursuits.
The Archive is neutral. She doesn’t ally with anyone, or act in any interests of any party other than those of the Archive itself.
Though she might work around the edges of that proscription where one of her two friends is involved.
So, “neutral” is not a synonym for “inactive”. I hope That helps all of the people out there who misunderstand.
I think you perhaps misunderstood that WOJ.
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--- Quote ---"All that knowledge makes the Archive powerful--and it was created as a repository of learning, a safeguard against the possibility of cataclysm of civilization, a loss of all knowledge, the destruction of all learning. It was bound to neutrality, to the preservation and gathering of knowledge."
--- End quote ---
Harry, Small Favor, Ch. 35, emphasis original.
--- Quote ---"But the Archive was created neutral," Sanya said. "Constrained."
--- End quote ---
Small Favor, Ch. 35.
--- Quote ---The Archive was created to be a neutral force. A repository of knowledge.
--- End quote ---
Luccio, Small Favor, Ch. 46.
Ivy's cover story is that she was created bound by neutrality for the preservation and gathering of information. We know this is a lie. She was created for the tracking and destruction of information. Here we are introduced to her being bound by neutrality as part of her cover story. We know for a fact that her purpose is a lie. Her neutrality is part of that larger lie. She isn't bound to neutrality.
The Archive is just about the least neutral party to the Accords. Her purpose is to basically obliviate them all. The Archive tried to obliviate the fairies. See Backup, Thomas's conversation with Bob. If that's neutrality, I don't want to know what hostility is. The Archive only appears to be neutral because she doesn't need to act openly to achieve her goals.
Additionally, each time her being bound to neutrality is brought up, it's noted that it's not Ivy's neutrality but the Archive's. The point is repeatedly made that it's a very real possibility that Ivy can wield the power of the Archive in a non-neutral manner. Perhaps this is considered such a real possibility because the holder of the Archive has acted in a non neutral manner in the past.
--- Quote ---Marcone had begun expanding his power base into the supernatural world as well, signing on to the Unseelie Accords as a freeholding lord. It made him, in the eyes of the authorities of the supernatural world, a kind of small, neutral state.
--- End quote ---
Narration, Small Favor, Ch. 5.
I'll concede, as I already have, that Ivy is a neutral party under the Accords. This isn't the same thing as saying that she is bound to neutrality. I'm fairly certain that one would only describe Marcone as neutral because they were unwilling to admit a point in favor of my argument that the Archive only pretends to be neutral or they were speaking very specifically about neutrality under the Accords. Even under the Accords the term neutral has multiple meanings. Accorded neutral ground and "neutral" parties are very different things.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I'll concede, as I already have, that Ivy is a neutral party under the Accords. This isn't the same thing as saying that she is bound to neutrality.
--- End quote ---
Actually the Archive is bound to neutrality, that why it was asked to act/direct the duel between Harry and Ortega. Ivy on the other hand as the host for the Archive may not feel so neutral, especially where Harry comes in. However even if she feel conflicted she has to abide by the rules for the Archive.
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