The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 04:28:04 PM ---There is no data to derive any odds. And I suppose that you could call Kim a zealot. But given that Jim just sketches her it's really hard to say. She strikes me as someone who is committed and who wears her heart on her sleeve. How we color that sketch may say more about us then the sketch.
--- End quote ---
Here is why I believe she was..
1] How many do you think with in that environmental group had any clue about what
MacFinn was?
2] If you had a clue as to what kind of damage it could do to the organization, if word got out publicity wise. If the press found out about MacFinn, then what? Just another thought to think about. Did Kim know what Harry's girl friend did for a living? Further did she know what paper Susan worked for? If she did, there is your motive for withholding vital information from Harry and outright lying to him..
3] In the face of all the warnings, not getting all the information to build the circle, still keeping his secret and attempting something she knew she couldn't handle at the cost of your own life.. Yeah, I'd call her a zealot...
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 03:51:44 AM ---The one book I don't have in text form. But I listened to it. I stand by my point.
--- End quote ---
Which point? It's not like you just have one.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 01:14:12 PM ---Exactly how would you know that? Harry can't see the future, and no one can know the results of our interactions. Anymore than I can Know that Kim would have survived had Harry not explained that drawing. But she did die.
--- End quote ---
I know that it could happen based on what Harry tells us in Proven Guilty about all the warlocks sprouting up.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 04:28:04 PM ---I suppose that you could call Kim a zealot.
--- End quote ---
The risk isn't that Kim would be a warlock. The risk is that one, or more, of the people he's coached would go warlock but for his coaching.
I'm saying that not knowing the future means that every action/inaction choice has unknowable consequences. One must balance foreseeable risks.
morriswalters:
I have no idea at this point.
Dresden is one among about seven billion people on the planet. If warlocks are cropping up like mushrooms, then any choice Dresden makes in that regard will be buried in the statistical noise. Even in Chicago.
Say Dresden has helped ten and lost one of those, Kim. That means his success rate is 90 percent. Having said that, since you don't know what happens after Dresden interacted with them, it's possible that some number of the ones he helped fell out anyway. You don't know what you don't know.
We do however know what happened in Kim's case. She died. If his point was to help Kim, the by any standard you might want to use, the outcome was less than optimal. It doesn't matter if Kim was an effing shit show. If the point was to help her with her magic, then it was a fail. She wasn't helped.
Does this make Harry responsible? It depends on the help. In Proven Guilty when Molly asks for help Harry is pretty straightforward about the price. And when it turns out that he has to go to Arctis Tor to get her, then he does it, even though he thinks he can't succeed.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
Dresden is one among about seven billion people on the planet. If warlocks are cropping up like mushrooms, then any choice Dresden makes in that regard will be buried in the statistical noise. Even in Chicago.
--- End quote ---
As they say, you do what you can.. If Harry can keep one or two kids from the chop, that is one or two lives saved, that is a big deal whether you bury it in statistical noise or not..
--- Quote ---Say Dresden has helped ten and lost one of those, Kim. That means his success rate is 90 percent. Having said that, since you don't know what happens after Dresden interacted with them, it's possible that some number of the ones he helped fell out anyway. You don't know what you don't know.
--- End quote ---
But at least he tries and he cares, if he chooses to do nothing, then all those kids are headed for the chop or worse, a life of evil... Not everyone can be like Charity and have a Knight of the Cross save her from a dragon and change her life.
--- Quote ---We do however know what happened in Kim's case. She died. If his point was to help Kim, the by any standard you might want to use, the outcome was less than optimal. It doesn't matter if Kim was an effing shit show. If the point was to help her with her magic, then it was a fail. She wasn't helped.
--- End quote ---
Kim was an outlier though, her zealotry for her cause over rode all her common sense and everything she had learned. There was only so much Harry can teach, he cannot get into her head and make her choices for her.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 27, 2020, 06:07:51 PM --- 1] How many do you think with in that environmental group had any clue about what MacFinn was? ...
--- End quote ---
I doubt it was many more than Kim, unless she worked with a coven/etc and told them; maybe an "eco-coven" or something? ::) But that's entirely unattested in the novels (or WoJ) that I know of.
I suspect she -- as a magician of SOME sort -- had an inside track of figuring out that MacFinn dwelt on the spooky side of the fence himself, and SHE approached HIM (or did some scrying / etc to figure it out).
--- Quote from: Mira on March 27, 2020, 06:07:51 PM --- 2] If you had a clue as to what kind of damage it could do to the organization, if word got out publicity wise. If the press found out about MacFinn, then what? Just another thought to think about. Did Kim know what Harry's girl friend did for a living? Further did she know what paper Susan worked for? If she did, there is your motive for withholding vital information from Harry and outright lying to him ...
--- End quote ---
Or just the "Supernatural SOP:" maintain the masquerade. It's not zealotry if it's what everyone (who's a spooky-sider) is doing!
Not to mention that, as a supernatural herself, she could expect to be harassed or even attacked by "suffer not a witch to live" fundamentalists; that puts her on MacFinn's side, no zealotry needed!
I don't doubt her sympathies were invoked: poor MacFinn, victim of this awful curse on his ancestor, etc etc etc. He had managed to work out a way not to kill people, he was just trying to help the world and not harm anyone, won't you help me please?
On the flipside (the "stick" if you consider the points above "carrots") Kim could reasonably expect to be locked up as insane, or sued into poverty, if she turned on him & tried to unmask MacFinn -- noted socialite / financier / whatever (where DID his wealth come from?) and philathropist; general Good Guy of no small repute -- as a freaking werewolf??? Gimme a break, lady!
Not seeing zealotry. Seeing an attempt to keep a status quo (the Masquerade), to help a respected elder & asset, some personal sympathies, and a backstop of "more likely to get in trouble than to fix anything, if I try to turn informant."
--- Quote from: Mira on March 27, 2020, 06:07:51 PM --- 3] In the face of all the warnings, not getting all the information to build the circle, still keeping his secret and attempting something she knew she couldn't handle at the cost of your own life ...
--- End quote ---
Or simple overconfidence.
Seriously -- the "zealot" attempting something they know is going to fail??
Maybe the jihadist "dying in the right cause guarantees heaven" mindset will intentionally "die trying" (with no expectation of success).
I don't think we have ANY evidence that Kim was in that sort of mindset.
Instead, I think she seriously hoped she COULD do it. She knew the consequences of failure -- not just that she might die, personally; but that her beloved cause would be WORSE OFF. Consequently, she would have been expecting to succeed... or at least, seeing this course as the best odds of success.
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